Ep. 9: I Wish I Knew Then What I Know Now
Across their conversations with current and former Members of Congress, Aubrey Wilson and Taylor J. Swift asked them, “What do you wish you knew during your freshman term that you know now?” Their answers don’t disappoint! From adjusting to a steep learning curve and the realization that holding a seat in the House is anything but a nine-to-five job, to how to set boundaries and prioritize self-care, this episode is a catch-all of advice from experienced Members to their new peers.
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Featured Guests
Congressman Bryan Steil [R, WI], first elected in 2018, represents Wisconsin's first Congressional district in the House of Representatives. As Chairman of the Committee on House Administration and a member of the House Financial Services Committee, Steil focuses on issues such as election law, House operations, and expanding economic opportunities for Americans. Before entering politics, Steil spent a decade in Wisconsin's manufacturing industry and served on the University of Wisconsin Board of Regents, experiences that inform his approach to reducing regulatory burdens and making education more affordable.
Congresswoman Stephanie Bice [R, OK] serves as a Member of the House of Representatives where she represents Oklahoma’s fifth Congressional district. Before her election to Congress, Bice spent six years in the Oklahoma State Senate, where she held leadership positions including Assistant Majority Floor Leader and Chair of the Senate Finance Committee. In the 118th Congress, Bice serves on several key committees, including the House Appropriations Committee, the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, and the Committee on House Administration, where she chairs the Subcommittee on Modernization. She also serves as Deputy Whip under Speaker Johnson.
Congresswoman Kat Cammack [R, FL], a Republican representing Florida's third Congressional district, is currently serving her second term in the House of Representatives. With a background rooted in agriculture and small business, Cammack brings a unique perspective to her roles on the House Agriculture and Energy and Commerce Committees, where she focuses on issues affecting working-class families, farmers, and national security. Before her election to Congress, Cammack served as deputy chief of staff for her predecessor and holds a Master's Degree in National Defense and Strategic Studies from the US Naval War College.
Congressman Maxwell Alejandro Frost [D, FL] made history as the first Gen Z Member elected to Congress, representing Florida's tenth district in the House of Representatives. An Afro-Latino with a background in community activism and organizing, Frost brings a fresh perspective to Congress as one of the youngest members ever elected. During his freshman term, Representative Frost served on the Committee on Oversight and Accountability and the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology.
Former Congressman Rodney Davis [R, IL] served as a Republican Representative for Illinois' thirteenth district for five terms. Known for his willingness to work across party lines, Davis held key positions including Ranking Member of the Committee on House Administration and Deputy Whip. He also served on the Select Committee on the Modernization of Congress, Committee on Transportation, and Committee on Agriculture. Before his election to the House in 2012, Davis spent 16 years as projects director for Congressman John Shimkus, where he focused on helping Illinois residents navigate government processes and supporting local economic development.
Former Congressman Ed Perlmutter [D, CO], a seasoned politician from Colorado, served two terms in the Colorado State Senate and eight terms in the House of Representatives for Colorado's seventh district. During his tenure in Congress, Perlmutter held positions on several key committees, including Rules, the Select Committee on the Modernization of Congress, Financial Services, as well as Science, Space, and Technology.
Former Congressman Brian Baird [D, WA], a psychologist turned politician, represented Washington's third Congressional district in the House of Representatives from 1999 to 2011. Following his tenure in Congress, he served as President of Antioch University Seattle and has since focused on promoting civility in politics, as evidenced by his co-authorship of the "Civility, Not Violence Pledge" and his ongoing work with various political reform organizations including the US Former Members of Congress Association.
Key Tips
Manage the work-life balance
Being a Member of Congress is not a nine-to-five job, and ensuring family time is a task in and of itself. To help your family transition to your new role smoothly, consider having your significant other participate in the hiring decision for your Scheduler. Also make sure to be clear with your Scheduler and Chief of Staff about what days in the upcoming two years are “non-negotiable” family-focused days.
Learn the Member housing policy
Housing is not provided to you by the House as a new Member. As a result, one of your first tasks prior to January will be finding a place to live. Member’s DC housing is reimbursable by the House as long as it is in accordance with set guidelines, so make sure to read and familiarize yourself with the policy
Self-care is vital
Congress is a demanding environment and you need to be intentional about your self-care routine. You might want to dedicate Sunday mornings for family time or an hour every day for physical fitness at the Member’s Gym when the House is in session. It’s similarly important to be an advocate for your staff’s mental health and lead by example.
Beyond voting
Keep in perspective that there are many aspects to being effective as a Member of Congress beyond voting on legislation, not the least of which is casework. No matter what you and your team spend time on, it is always important to communicate with stakeholders.
Notable Quotes
“Roll up your sleeves, do your homework, and study…There’s benefits to this job where you get to meet people who [you] never otherwise get to meet. If you call somebody, they’re usually willing to jump on the phone with you and give you the benefit of their thoughts and advice. And so take advantage of it. You know, you’re dealing with a veterans’ bill; call the veterans group in your home town and ask them how this program actually plays out, not just how an academic tells you it might play out. Talk to people who are actually going to be impacted by this.”
“First and foremost, pull out your calendar and mark out the days that are absolutely non-negotiable for you. Right. Put those on a calendar and tell your team, tell your director of operations or your staff these days are, you know, non-negotiable. For me, whether it is a birthday, an anniversary, a special occasion, wedding, whatever you have coming up because the, the better you can sort of set those parameters, those guardrails, to protect your time, the happier you will be. And you will learn that most staffers will say, ‘happy Member, happy life.’”
“This has been my number one piece of advice for years: is be a free agent…because if you’re all things to all groups and all people, then you’re going to lose your identity and your ability to get things done for your constituents.”
“All your freshman colleagues are going to do the same thing you’re going through, no matter how much experience they have or no matter how much they might want to seem like they’re not underwater.”
“The job demands a lot and you can’t underestimate that. But you have to do two things: One, carve out time for your family and carve out time for yourself…One of the places where I found it just helped me energize myself again and released a lot of stress was the gym…I knew I was a much better person and a much better candidate and a much better Member of Congress when I actually worked out a little bit. And people need to remember, you need to protect your family time, but you also need to take care of yourself.”
“I really had to take the time to understand the scheduling process and the needs – how to actually intertwine your political fundraising, plus political events, plus scheduling into a life that went from me self-scheduling myself as a district staffer on a daily basis…to having my life dictated by a card that had appointments and meetings every 15 minutes from the time I got up till the time I went to bed. That was a huge change for me. And then also another big surprise was how you had to force some time in your schedule to be able to do the family events that you just took for granted when you were not an elected Member of Congress.”
“If I had to say the single most important ingredient to being a successful Member of Congress, and by success, I don’t mean necessarily that you get reelected forever or that you become a major Chairman. I believe it means you conducted yourself with integrity and with the well-being of your constituents and your country first and foremost. And if that means you only last one term, but if you kept those priorities where they need to be, then in my judgment, you’re successful…Watch out for all the snares that are out there – whether that’s all the parties with alcohol, the relationship complications you can get into, financial temptations. You know, steer clear of all that stuff and then keep your focus on why you’re there, which is to make a difference and try to serve the public.”
“You know, if you’re there, it means you belong there. Remember that it’s a borrowed…power. It’s a borrowed power from the people. That’s what I always, you know, when I’m at home, I always tell them, thank you for this borrowed power. And I hope I’m using it the way you want me to.”
Highlighted and Additional Resources
Former Members of Congress Association: a nonprofit that engages with both former and current Members of Congress to provide pro bono public service programs, host international legislative exchanges, and foster bipartisan opportunities for Members to work together on key policy areas.
Further Listening
For more insights from current and former Members on navigating the ins and outs of the House, don’t miss episode 2 focused on “The Structure of a Congressional Office and How to Boost Effectiveness Out of the Gate” and episode 10 on “Approaching the House as a Modern Institution.”
Hosts
Aubrey Wilson is POPVOX Foundation’s Director of Government Innovation. Aubrey served as former Deputy Staff Director for the Committee on House Administration (CHA) in the 118th Congress. In this role, she coordinated efforts to make the House work more effectively, including overseeing the inaugural session of CHA’s bipartisan Subcommittee on Modernization. Prior, Aubrey served as Director of Oversight and Modernization for CHA during the 117th Congress. She is a former House legislative assistant and member of the R Street Institute Governance Policy and federal affairs team.
Taylor J. Swift is POPVOX Foundation’s Director of Government Capacity. Prior to joining POPVOX Foundation, Taylor was a senior policy advisor at Demand Progress, focusing on Congressional transparency, efficiency, capacity, and modernization. Taylor also worked at the House of Representatives Democratic Caucus where he focused on congressional modernization, budget, appropriations, education, labor, environmental, and tax policy. Taylor graduated with his master’s degree from The University of Akron, working as a teaching assistant for the Bliss Institute of Applied Politics.
About the Podcast
“Gavel In” is a nonpartisan explainer podcast series designed especially to mentor new Members Elect of the incoming 119th Congress, their staff, and families to help them successfully set up their new office, team, and Washington home base with ease and navigate the professional and personal challenges of life as a Representative. Gavel In guides Members-Elect about House Floor operations, office structure and hiring, budgeting, technology, security, ethics, and also the intricacies of parliamentary procedure, rules, and how a bill becomes a law.
Created by former Congressional staff from both sides of the aisle by the nonpartisan POPVOX Foundation, “Gavel In” features expert advice from former Members of Congress and their spouses and is a great complement to the House’s official New Member Orientation to ensure Members Elect get all the support they need to succeed as they embark on their new careers in Congress.
About POPVOX Foundation
With a mission to inform and empower people and make government work better for everyone, POPVOX Foundation is focused on ensuring that democratic institutions are equipped to address the “pacing problem” — the gap between emerging technologies and governance. Co-founded in 2021 and led by proud former Congressional staffers from both sides of the aisle, the team at POPVOX Foundation brings empathy, a deep respect for the Legislative branch, and diverse expertise to its efforts to modernize Congress and other governing institutions.
Transcript
Ep. 9: I Wish I Knew Then What I Know Now
Introduction
Aubrey Wilson: Welcome to Gavel In, a podcast series that demystifies how the House of Representatives works. We've created the show for incoming House freshmen of the 119th Congress, their spouses and staff as an off-the-Hill resource to supplement your official New Member Orientation onboarding, so that you are extra set up for success in your new career in Congress.
Taylor J. Swift: We’re your hosts, Aubrey Wilson and Taylor J. Swift, two recovering House staffers from both sides of the aisle who share a love for the institution and are dedicated to supporting its ongoing evolution through our work at POPVOX Foundation. We're a nonpartisan nonprofit that works to inform and empower people and make government work better for everyone.
Aubrey Wilson: In making Congress work better, we know that that starts with empowered Congresspeople and staff. That's why we've spent the last couple months gathering the perspectives of prominent Members of Congress, think tank experts, staffers, and Congressional veterans who share their vast Capitol Hill knowledge to pull back the curtain on what life in Congress is really like.
Taylor J. Swift: We also want to be transparent. This is not official guidance. Today's episode on "I Wish I Knew Then What I Know Now,” reveals wisdom by current and former Representatives on how to be an effective Member of Congress from day one.
Aubrey Wilson: We were excited to give these Members the chance to reflect and share on their freshman terms. All the harder lessons learned, the big takeaways, and the importance to adjusting to be part of the Congressional community. All while still taking care of yourself and your family. In this episode, we talk to the Chair of the Committee on House Administration Republican Representative Bryan Steil, Subcommittee on Modernization Chair Republican Representative Stephanie Bice, freshman Democrat Maxwell Frost, and Republican Representative Kat Cammack. We also will hear from former Representatives Brian Baird, Rodney Davis, and Ed Perlmutter.
Taylor J. Swift: All our guests today share personal insights about their experiences navigating the halls of the House and as Members from different political parties, regions of the country, diverse professional backgrounds, and generations of House classes, their advice runs the gamut, and we can't wait to share it with you.
Aubrey Wilson: And with that, let's gavel in.
Discussion and Interview with Rep. Bryan Steil [R, WI]
Aubrey Wilson: Okay, folks, we are nine episodes in on Gavel In, and it's time that Taylor and I come clean with you. When we first thought about doing this podcast, this was actually going to be the only question we were going to ask our guests.
Taylor J. Swift: You're right, Aubrey, and honestly, we just thought it was such a valuable question. You don't really know what you don't know. And we wanted to make sure that Members can share with new Members what to expect because they walked in their shoes. Obviously, in some previous episodes, we've dug into some topics about what might be unexpected in the legislative process, some insider tips for being an effective committee member or committee staffer.
And of course, the super weedsy, nitty gritty of House rules, and the Members’ Representational Allowance. However, in this episode is just for the topics that Members really wanted to emphasize about things that they wish they knew when they were first sworn in.
Aubrey Wilson: Yeah, it's where we kind of map everything together and stitch everything together, and we really hone in on that Member's personal experience that they want to share with the incoming class.
We're kicking off with our conversation with Chair Bryan Steil and his tips for navigating life as a freshman to make an impact.
He was first sworn in during the 116th Congress, but he wasn't new to the House, having briefly worked as a staffer. Now as Chairman of the Committee on House Administration, he's overseeing efforts to modernize New Member Orientation to make the onboarding process smoother for the incoming class.
I'll also note, in the spirit of full disclosure, that he is a former boss of mine. I had the great pleasure of working on his team as the Deputy Staff Director for the Committee in the 118th Congress.
So when you first become elected to Congress, you go to New Member Orientation, and kind of your whole freshman term is really known to be drinking from a fire hose. You hear that expression a lot on the Hill, especially from the freshmen, that just kind of in general, I think from anyone starting out in Congress, whether you're a Member or a staffer.
Looking back at your initial weeks and months at the very beginning of your term in Congress, what do you really remember from that time? And what would you do differently if you found yourself in the shoes of freshmen coming in as part of the 119th class?
Rep. Bryan Steil: I remember coming to DC and they put you up at a little hotel and it's like, you know, New Member Orientation is really like H.R. onboarding for Members of Congress, which every, every company in the world has. This one's just a little bit unique, because the job's a little different. And I remember coming, you get it in the night before, and you wake up, you're in the morning kind of excited.
You ride the elevator down, and I walked out, and you come out the door, and there's a bus for Republicans and a bus for Democrats. And you realize how institutionalized some of the partisanship is in Washington. And what we need to do is break down the institutional partisanship of the institution. And again, that's not trying to sound Pollyanna.
It's like everybody's going to sing Kumbaya and hold hands. No, that's not the case. There are real and substantive differences, where we disagree, whether or not that's tax policy, or health care, national defense, right? Election integrity, where I spend a lot of time. But that doesn't mean everything is. And so I think a lot of it from, you know, I came from a business background. You referenced I worked for one year on Capitol Hill when I was 22 years old, and then left Capitol Hill, and would have a career in the private sector. And in the private sector, I did a lot of business negotiations.
And what you learned was you didn't compromise your principles. But you would have to build a trust relationship with the opposite side. And so, you know, oversimplified, right? If I wanted to sell 100 widgets for $100 and somebody wanted to buy 100 widgets for $1, right? I mean, let the negotiations begin. Right. And how do you get to yes?
And it doesn't mean that you compromise, your principles or what you're working for. It's just trying to figure out, can you get a deal done. And in business that happens every single day between, you know, employers and employees, between customers and suppliers. And at the end of the day, what you're trying to do is get a win for everybody, right?
If done correctly, everybody walks away, a winner. That's kind of day in and day out of the private sector of hard working Americans. And they get that. And then they look at Washington, and far too many people view it as a zero sum game, which is if I win, you lose. If you win, I lose. Rather than trying to think through and say, where are their substantive areas where we can all walk away a step ahead, and putting a lot of time and energy and effort into those areas, is really rewarding.
And so building those trust relationships — not only with your colleagues on your own side of the aisle, because not always does either party agree with their own party 100% of the time right? You turn on your TV, you know that, but you got to also build those relationships across the aisle, as well.
Aubrey Wilson: One of the many programs that the Committee of House Administration oversees and really helps organize is New Member Orientation. With this new one coming up for the 119th class, what kind of advice do you have for those Members when they do, you know, check out of that hotel or check in and go out for that first day.
Come to Capitol Hill. And there's just that onslaught of information. What is kind of your number one survival tip for Members going through those first two weeks of onboarding to be a Member of Congress.
Rep. Bryan Steil: It’s to come in and have a really an open mind to try to digest as much information as you can coming at you. And to begin building those relationships with your colleagues. And so, doing both of those at the same time, takes up a lot of time. But that's the name of the game.
And you're doing this all the while, where you're still trying to get back home, trying to spend time with your family and in your district. And so that is a time constraint issue. But making sure that you come in ready to, to take in, the amount of information that's about to come at you is absolutely essential.
It's really like people that have done onboarding at, at a big company, that does lots of different things. It's really a somewhat similar experience. I worked for, big manufacturing company in Wisconsin, and I can remember people coming in and onboarding, and some people didn't have a background in manufacturing. They came in, with, you know, specific skill sets, right.
So you bring somebody in from H.R., from the finance team, or the marketing team, right? They wouldn't maybe be an inherent skill in that type of manufacturing, but they had a skill that the manufacturing company needed. And so you're coming in, you're thinking, “wow, these are a bunch of new terms, a bunch of new areas.” And so you got to learn a lot.
And it's the same way the federal government. People come in, with knowledge on certain areas of the federal government. But other areas, they may be less knowledgeable of just because their work in life hasn't exposed them to the level of detail that's required to put forward policy in any specific spot.
And so, being willing to be a student doing your reading, the things that you learn, either, your freshman year of high school or your freshman year of college is probably the most essential tools you got.
Aubrey Wilson: Now that you have a couple of terms under your belt, what are some of the biggest lessons learned, or maybe some of the biggest surprises that you've come to discover about the best tips and tricks for really connecting with your constituents back home?
Rep. Bryan Steil: Yeah, maybe I came in a little more eyes wide open. I don't know that I was totally flabbergasted by, you know, really any of the aspects of I mean, there's things that work well, there's things that work terribly, in this institution. And what you're trying to do is figure out ways to navigate, you know, navigate through it and exemplify the good things and address kind of the downside risk.
And so you just got to come in with a positive attitude, recognize that nothing's perfect. But again, it's just not that way off of any job that anybody has ever gone to work in. It's just darn frustrating because you look at and you say, “this place can work a lot better.” And it can, and you're trying to make incremental change.
Taylor J. Swift: I guess the question we have for you is, how are you able to kind of balance all of the hard work that you're putting in representing your constituents, while also still trying to have a personal life, here in DC and as well, in your district and, and how, how you continue to do that.
Rep. Bryan Steil: But this is a 24-hour-seven job. But, you know, before I came here, I worked in the private sector and that was a 24/7 job. And so fair enough. Right. If you don't like to work hard, this is not the place for you. And so if you, if you enjoy it. Right. I enjoy the work in a certain sense.
Right? I mean, like, you get to meet people you never otherwise get to meet. I mean, this past weekend, I met a number of young soldiers who are preparing for their deployment, from the National Guard heading to the Middle East. And you get to meet men and women who've signed up to serve our country. And they're saying goodbye to their husbands, to their wives, to their children, who are heading out.
And you meet their moms and dads. You wouldn’t get to meet these people if you didn't do that. I met a, you know, a nurse, who during COVID walked through kind of what she had to do, to help out people who are suffering, in particular, people in nursing homes. You get to just some amazing opportunities.
And, yeah, you know, the hours may be long, and the commute is not great. I, you know, I live 700 miles from where I work. And you got to fly back and forth. But you're doing it for a broader purpose. And that purpose is we live in the greatest country in the world. And you got an opportunity, a period of time, to try to help move the ball forward on that.
And so you kind of, you know, dive in and, hopefully you enjoy the work.
Aubrey Wilson: When going through New Member Orientation, you made the comment that being onboarded to Congress is really similar to being on board to a huge private company, or to really being onboarded to any position that you just are coming in with completely fresh eyes on. One of probably the most intimidating aspects of Congress, I would assume, for a newly elected Member who maybe doesn't have a background in a state legislature, is learning the legislative process.
The really nitty gritty, nuts and bolts, procedure and tradition. What are some of your biggest tips and tricks for how you have come to navigate learning the legislative process, is it the staff that you hire, is it certain resources that are available to you? What do you really recommend for those Members who maybe, like I said, don't have that legislative background who really feel like they want to hit the ground running, though, to represent their constituents?
Rep. Bryan Steil: Yeah. I never ran for office before. So I was in the bucket. I came from the private sector, I think in the end of the day, it actually benefited me. But it's the same thing you'd learn anyway, right? Roll up your sleeves, do your homework, and study. And, you know, as noted earlier, right. There's benefits to this job, where you get to meet people who never otherwise get to meet.
If you call somebody, they're usually willing to jump on the phone with you and give you the benefit of their thoughts and advice. And so take advantage of it. You know, you're dealing with a veterans bill. Call the veterans group in your home town and ask them how this program actually plays out, not just how an academic tells you it might play out.
Talk to people who are actually going to be impacted by this. And then on the other side, right. You can also call an absolute, academic expert who totally understands arcane parliamentary procedure. And that man or woman is going to give you the benefit of their insights into how to navigate a bill across the House floor.
And the successful Members are doing both. They're picking up the phone, they're calling people, and they're willing to, to really do the studying and to learn. Nobody has a monopoly on good ideas. Nobody has mastered every policy area under the sun. And so those that thrive in this are those that are willing to, humble themselves, do the homework and, reach out and solicit expert advice.
Aubrey Wilson: If you could kind of pick up the phone and leave a message for all of the new freshmen coming in about just how to get the most out of the experience of being a Member of Congress with all of the challenges with that and all of the amazing opportunities that also come with that position. What would you want to say?
Like what is kind of the big overarching thing that you think that is so unique to the experience of being a Member, that they should prepare for as they kind of embark on this very unique career path over the next two years.
Rep. Bryan Steil: Well, I think many Members are ready because they ran a campaign to get here. And nobody runs a campaign for fun. You do it because you want to come here and legislate. It's just to come in and be ready. Be eyes wide open. And be ready to throw yourself into it. And the harder you work, the more you get done.
And that is pretty much true in almost every aspect of life. What you learn in kindergarten, more or less pertains, to Congress the same way it does the private sector, the same way it does to your church. And so the more you're willing to put into it, the more you're going to get out of it. And the Members that succeed, put in a lot of time and effort.
Discussion
Taylor J. Swift: Aubrey, I thought that was an incredible conversation with Chair Steil about New Member Orientation. NMO is such a great crash course for Members Elect.
And honestly, hearing from him about the bipartisan efforts to make it stronger was really exciting. I also love what he was saying about coming into Congress with your eyes wide open. I know we've said this on previous episodes, and I feel like this way of, you know, about being a previous staffer, but you kind of have this preconceived notion of what you think Congress is.
But honestly, I was amazed that my assumptions were off base. And I think this was echoed by Chair Steil. He really spoke to that.
Aubrey Wilson: Yeah, absolutely. And to pick up where he left off about a Member of Congress’ workload. We're actually so happy to welcome back to the podcast Republican Congresswoman from Oklahoma, Stephanie Bice, who also serves on the Committee on House Administration, as Chair of the Subcommittee on Modernization. But that is just one of her committee assignments. If you are a loyal listener, you'll remember her from episode three on being an effective committee member, where she talked to us about being assigned to four full committees and seven subcommittees as Congress, as well as being appointed as Deputy Whip under Speaker Johnson.
Interview with Rep. Stephanie Bice [R, OK]
Taylor J. Swift: So it's no secret that you're extremely busy and you're extremely hard working. But you also, you know, have a family back in Oklahoma. You have two daughters, back there.
With all of your time and energy going into serving your constituents and working on legislation and working across the aisle, how do you find time to balance all of that?
And I guess to our listeners who are going through this New Member Orientation process and are starting to get more acclimated with the balance of being from the district, but also being in DC, we'd love to just hear some of those best practices and things that you have been doing over the course of your tenure, to kind of achieve that balance between family life and work.
Rep. Stephanie Bice: I mean, it is hard. I think there's a couple of ways that I try to balance it. You know, when you're a new freshman, you want to do all the things. And I tried to do all of those things, whether it was here in DC or whether it was back in the district, because you really feel compelled, but also honored that you have the opportunity to participate in, you know, different events back home.
And certainly what's happening here. But I always remind freshmen of a couple of things. First and foremost, pull out your calendar and mark out the days that are absolutely non-negotiable for you. Right. Put those on a calendar and tell your team, tell your director of operations or your staff these days are, you know, non-negotiable for me. Whether it is a birthday, an anniversary, a special occasion, wedding, whatever you have coming up because the better you can sort of set those parameters, those guardrails, to protect your time, the happier you will be.
And you will learn that most staffers will say, happy Member, happy life. So they want to try to make sure that you're taking care of from a, from a personal standpoint. The other thing is, you know, invite your family to be part of as many things as you feel comfortable and as they feel comfortable. I'm in a little bit of a unique situation because I'm a female Member on the Republican side. There's 36 of us. And so, you know, when you're talking about sort of spouse things, oftentimes we're talking about wives, not husbands, when we're talking about events that are happening for the spouses. And so sometimes my husband will say, “I don't really want to go to that thing, or I don't want to do that,” but he's willing to come to other things and participate.
So, and the same for my daughters. My daughters are college age and actually graduated. But I will offer them the opportunity. And if they want to participate and be a part, then by all means I will let them. Both of my girls came up last year for swearing in for the week. They didn't get to actually see me sworn in.
They got to be here for the week and see kind of the dynamics of that. So I think just trying to bring your family along as best you can, also is a great way to, to keep them engaged in the process.
I would say, keep in mind that you've just come off of, in many cases, a very contentious campaign. And I noticed that some freshman Members have a propensity to decide to hire their Campaign Manager to be their Chief of Staff. And, a Chief of Staff role in Congress is wildly different than a Campaign Manager in a district.
And so be mindful of that, because you really want someone that understands Washington, that understands this institution, that recognizes that being a Chief of Staff is really an HR function more than anything. It's a function of setting up an office. It's a function of hiring the right staff that are going to sit in the right roles. And if you have somebody that doesn't necessarily have that type of experience, you're going to set yourself back in the long run.
And so that to me was something that not only was it shared with me, but it was also something I conveyed to other Members, new Members this last Congress when they came in. Because I recognize that there's value in understanding the differences in those roles. And then the other thing and we and I've preached this, I think quite a bit, but it is also to protect your personal time, lock off those important dates, block of those, you know, can't miss, engagements so that you don't feel like this job is consuming you.
Because if you don't set some boundaries, it can and it will. And, you don't want to create a dynamic where your family, you know, is maybe bitter or disappointed because you're missing so many opportunities back at home and so, those are a couple of easy pieces of advice I would have for new Members.
Discussion
Aubrey Wilson: I just want to take a second before we jump to our next guest to follow up on what Representative Bice just emphasized about Members making a strong effort from the very start to protect your personal time, and to do a quick shout out to all the family members out there of those elected to Congress. You all play such an incredible role in supporting your loved ones who work for the House, and there really is personal sacrifice involved in being part of that Congressional family. So thank you.
Taylor J. Swift: Aubrey, that was so well said. Honestly, I hope that our guests and our listeners and everybody in between takes that to heart. I just want to also give a special shout out to the Congressional Spouses Association for our Members and staff looking out for their family. That's something you should definitely look into. Our next guest actually also shares some golden advice about how to balance that work-life balance.
Congresswoman Kat Cammack, a Republican representing Florida's third Congressional district, actually served as Deputy Chief of Staff for her predecessor before being elected to Congress in 2021. She helps bring a millennial perspective to serving her constituents and managing her team, and has had an amazing big-picture take on the job you're about to embark upon.
Interview with Rep. Kat Cammack [R, FL]
Aubrey Wilson: There is a very steep learning curve to being a Member of Congress. Even if you were a prior Congressional staffer, if you could kind of give advice to all of the freshmen coming into this for the first time, whether they were prior Congressional staffers or not, what's kind of your top list of the biggest things to to focus on right out of the gate, especially as they are getting it at New Member Orientation and their very first couple weeks after swearing in.
Rep. Kat Cammack: Oh, the first thing that I would tell them, and this has been my number one piece of advice for years, is be a free agent. So, and I tell this to candidates, too. Be someone that when you are going through orientation, you are being courted by a million different groups and be that one person that is hard to get.
Because if you're all things to all groups and all people, then you're going to lose your identity and your ability to get things done for your constituents. And so I think it is so important that these organizations, the different caucuses, the different, you know, outside groups, all these, these elements that factor in and during orientation, they're going to come at you with so much of, “we can be a value add, and we can do this, and we'll help you with vote recommendations, and we'll do policy write-ups, and we'll do memos and we'll do this.” You're gonna get that stuff anyway, and you're going to get it for free. So take your time, really figure out if this is an organization or a caucus or a group that you want to be affiliated with, that you want to join.
Because I can tell you that there are so many angles to every single group, and you have so much power being a free agent. Especially when there's narrow majorities, every vote counts, right? And then people got to work for it. And you never want your vote to, one, be taken for granted, and two, you never want to put your constituents in a place where you've been boxed in by joining a particular caucus, and so therefore, you're not able to serve all of your constituents effectively. So that would be my first piece of advice, is be a free agent. There's power in being a free agent. And you can always join a group at any time. So there's that element.
The second thing, it kind of hit me, a couple of months ago, and I can't remember who said it to me. But it was in context with something else. And they said, talking about their career, and they said, I hope that this isn't the best thing that ever happens to me. And I thought, “Holy shit, I hope that Congress is never the best thing that happens to me.” And so my piece of advice would be, don't let Congress and being elected to Congress be the very best thing that has ever happened to you in your life.
Let your kids, your grandkids, something else be so powerfully wonderful and consuming that you understand and respect the privilege and honor it is to serve. But that it doesn't become so intoxicating that you end up forsaking your family, your friends, for the job. And I have seen it. Oh man. Have I seen it. I have seen so many divorces just in my short time, of my colleagues whose families are breaking up, kids who are struggling because they're not seeing their parents, and so that element to me probably ought to be my first piece of advice is don't let it be the best thing that's ever happened to you.
But I would say that realistically, you know, you're here to do a job and so you got to do the job, but make it so that at any time, if you don't feel the butterflies walking up the steps of the Capitol, and you have more of a sense of dread, or maybe you have a sense of power, and that's terrifying in itself.
If you don't have the humbling butterflies in your stomach, then it's time to go home. And that to me is always going to be my indicator of if I don't feel humbled and completely just in awe of the fact that I get to go up those steps every day and drop my voting card into the voting box, I just I know that that's my cue.
So, that in itself, keeping that mindset, I think will also be very powerful for people to keep perspective.
Interview with Former Reps. Rodney Davis [R, IL] and Ed Perlmutter [D, CO]
Aubrey Wilson: We're now going to dig into the treasure trove of knowledge held by former Members of Congress. We're excited to welcome back former Representatives Davis and Perlmutter, who asked us to refer to them by their first names, Rodney and Ed. Really quick as a refresher for our loyal listeners: Congressman Davis represented Illinois's 13th Congressional district and served in Congress for a decade. He sat on many committees, including the Committee on Agriculture, the Select Committee on the Modernization of Congress, and he was Ranking Member of the Committee on House Administration.
Taylor J. Swift: A former Colorado state Senator, Representative Ed Perlmutter from Colorado's seventh Congressional district, served in Congress for fifteen years and sat on the Committee on Financial Services, the Committee on Space Science and Technology, and the House Rules Committee.
And while Ed and Rodney are from opposite parties, their interactions during their overlapping committee assignments, and from our own interview with them, it's clear that their friendship is strong.
Aubrey Wilson: So to kick off, Ed and Rodney, Taylor and I were both very lucky to work with you and your teams during your last sessions in Congress. During those times, both of you were already very well known as effective lawmakers and relationship builders, particularly because of your incredible positions on the House Rules Committee and the Committee on House Administration.
But kind of taking a look back at your Congressional career from the beginning, when you put yourself back in the shoes of your freshman term of Congress and particularly those first weeks, what do you wish you would have known then that you now know, looking back on it?
Former Rep. Rodney Davis: Well, I tell you what, I wish I'd have known a lot of things about getting to Congress, and I was lucky. I was a staff member for a sitting Member of Congress who I ended up serving with for eight years because of the miracle of redistricting every ten years. I thought I knew a lot about what Congress was about, but I had spent sixteen years working in a district office, and that gave me a great opportunity to really understand what our local communities were impacted by, what their needs were.
But I got to Washington, DC, I got to orientation, and it was still like drinking from a fire hose for me. Now, don't get me wrong, I could skip during orientation all the discussion about how to implement the MRA and do vouchers to get reimbursements. Because I did all of that stuff, I didn't really need to know how to set up a district office and the staff that were needed versus, and an office in DC.
I knew what my limits were, but I really had to take the time to understand the scheduling process and the needs, how to actually intertwine your political fundraising, plus political events, plus scheduling into a life that went from me self scheduling myself as a district staffer on a daily basis. Unless the boss was home and I was, I was working his schedule with him, to having my life dictated by a card that had appointments and meetings every fifteen minutes from the time I got up till the time I went to bed.
That was a huge change for me. And then also another big surprise was how you had to force some time in your schedule to be able to do the family events that you just took credit, took for granted when you were not an elected Member of Congress. That's just the tip of the iceberg in some of the things that I learned that I wish I would have known going in that I don't know now, and would be happy to counsel anyone who's coming to Congress and answer any specific questions.
And better yet, send your spouse and whomever is going to be your Scheduler to come meet with me, so that we can make sure that their priorities and your family priorities are number one, because that's the one thing. No matter who you are, what your district looks like, where you're from, what pressures you get, that family presence should never change.
Former Rep. Ed Perlmutter: So I think Rodney's dead on that, you know, the family piece is so important and there's so much there's so many things going on that it's hard to kind of remember that you've always taken it for granted. And so that's, that is something that, any new Member just needs to remember that, you know, family does come first.
You got to figure out how to fit it into everything, but they come first and not to forget it. I think the biggest surprise for me, as I was a lawyer, I'd been in the state Senate. I figured, okay, this is going to be a piece of cake coming into Congress, it’s not a big deal. And the first thing was, where the hell am I going to live?
You know what? I had no idea. And I started looking around, and it was I hadn't lived in anything, even when I was at the University of Colorado, I hadn't found places that…I was like looking in basement apartments that were going to be super expensive. And luckily, I bumped into a couple guys who said, look, let's, let's be roommates.
I'm going, I'm 53 years old and my wife is my roommate. I'm not going to have roommates. But, you know, I still have one of those roommates to this day. And, you know, it's been a fantastic relationship. But that was a huge surprise to me was sort of the living arrangements and, and how at that time it was compensated.
But over time, Congress has done a better job in reimbursing people for their housing. In fact, it was really in that last cycle, in this cycle right now where it's improved. But I'd say living arrangements were a real surprise to me. And, you know, finding some good roommates turned out to make all the difference in the world for me and made it a much more enjoyable experience.
Taylor J. Swift: So you both mentioned how difficult the adjustment was, whether you were coming from different types of public office or just coming in as a freshman. When it comes to the workload, the day to day operations, the intensity of it all. And you both kind of mentioned trying to strike a balance between doing public good and representing your constituents, but then also making sure you had time for family and friends.
Ed, I'm going to start with you, and then we can go to Rodney. Can you give us some advice on how you personally were able to establish those boundaries, or at least to the best of your abilities, do so within the first year of being a freshman.
Former Rep. Ed Perlmutter: It's very hard because in that first year, everything is new, the people are new, the politics really are new. You know, generally the politics, because you just come from a Congressional race. But the politics are new within the capital versus, you know, sort of outside the capital in your district. The procedures are different. Everything is different.
And so you're trying to, to learn this stuff, be in a different city, you know, so I, my home is, the Denver suburbs, Arvada, Colorado. And now I'm in Washington, DC, so there are a lot of different new things going on. So luckily, I had a really outstanding Scheduler, who and my Chief of Staff, who were very helpful in helping me organize my life because it took, you know, from fundraising to legislating to constituent relations to taking time for my family.
You know, I still had, you know, one daughter in middle school, one daughter in high school, one daughter in college, and, you know, trying to maintain those relationships. So I was very fortunate in having some staff that were so helpful to me in helping me get done all the different things that needed to get done in that time frame. And to start learning, you know, what it was like to be a Member of Congress, because it's a very new experience.
Even with my legal background, the fact I've been in the state Senate, it's a really new experience, and everybody just needs to accept that and accept the fact you're not going to be Mr. or Mrs. Know It All, you know, for some time, because it just takes time to learn the whole new place.
Former Rep. Rodney Davis: Well, you know, great question. Unlike Ed, I knew it all when I got to Congress. And frankly, that'll he’ll attest. I knew it all when I left Congress, too. And and in between, I just ask him and ask me, but, you know, we.
Former Rep. Ed Perlmutter: Can we, can we speak over one another, just please? I mean, when he says something like that, I can't let that go because, you know, he really is. He's one of the most confident guys I've ever met in my life. There is nothing he can't do.
Former Rep. Rodney Davis: I obviously, I fooled Ed for ten years, because I clearly didn't know at all when I got to Congress and, and really, it's, as Ed mentioned, it takes time to get your team to understand what's important and what's not. I mean, you immediately get there, you're worried. Wow. Like, in my case, I came in, I came in, winning the closest Republican victory in the nation.
I was told by some of my colleagues, both on both sides of the aisle, that I likely wasn't coming back after that first term. So you're like, well, I guess I better make something happen while I'm here then if that's going to be the case. So I got there, and I've really had a hard time at first adjusting that schedule around to what was really, truly important.
And that eventually works itself out the longer you stay in Congress, because you understand what should be a priority and what may not be the best use of your time. And for me, it was really just finding that balance, finding that time in your day in Washington when you could do the political meetings off campus, when you could do the constituent meetings, and at the same time be adaptable because you never know when the vote series is going to happen, and just screw up your schedule. It's based on every fifteen minutes. You have to be willing to be flexible, and you have to adapt to what is happening on the ground at that time, and you have to adapt to look. When you're a freshman, you may get called by a member of your leadership team, or their staff to say, “hey, come to this meeting.”
And you're going to have to change what you have to get there. If it's something that your team is deemed as important. But in the end, the balance that was most effective for me was the balance back home, back in the district. Because when you win a race like that, like I did, your team wants you at every single public event you can be at, and that also means events that may conflict with who you were before you got to Congress.
Like in my case, I coached football and baseball for my kids. That's what I was known for by my many in my hometown. So that was frankly, I ran my first commercial about what I was going to do in Congress with the kids, including my twins that I coached in football. So I would get pushback from my team that I may miss the biggest parade of the year to go to my kid's football game that I'm a coach of and I would have to remind them.
And this was the same with baseball, too, that if I'm a politician at a parade, I'm probably at a big one. One of 50 or 60, and unless you're going to tell me you as a team are going to do something that makes my walking by them very memorable, that they're going to know I'm there.
Isn't it better if I go coach my kid's game, and the people that are there that are not from my hometown, that have known me my whole life, don't you think it's better for them to walk away saying, I can't believe our Congressman is actually coaching a Little League team? I can't believe our Congressman is actually standing the sidelines of a football team and meeting people in towns that may not have known him or her before that.
So you can't forget what got you there, just for the best ideas that the so-called political leaders may have been doing for the last 25 years, and they don't want to change.
Former Rep. Ed Perlmutter: Can I echo that, please? So I think Rodney again, he's right on the money, because one, you get elected because of you, you know, and you get some advice and you get some shaping of things. But at the end of the day it's you. And so I didn't I knew he had done lots of sports and I knew his kids did, but I so similarly, I coached my middle daughter softball team for years and years and years, and my youngest daughter was a cheerleader, and I would watch her go to cheerleading practice and all that stuff, and, one it was just cathartic for me and helpful to me to get grounded again and to spend time with my children.
So, you know, the job demands a lot, and you can't underestimate that. But you have to do two things. One, carve out time for your family and carve out time for yourself. So one of the things that we haven't talked about, and I know Aubrey and and you, Taylor, we talked about it in the Committee is, one of the places where I found a lot of, it just helped me energize myself again and released a lot of stress.
Was the gym and really helpful, too. And it was something that would go off to the side. And because you're rushing around for the meeting and fundraiser and there's that. And I knew I was a much better person and a much better candidate and a much better Member of Congress when I actually worked out a little bit.
And people need to remember, you need to protect your family time, but you also need to take care of yourself.
Former Rep. Rodney Davis: Yeah, I will add for the new freshmen that are coming in, since Ed left, they took away that machine that just shakes and has the belt that Ed stood at and thought it was a workout. But just rest assured, you all be okay and get a real one.
Former Rep. Ed Perlmutter: I'm not even going there with you on that.
Discussion
Aubrey Wilson: One topic that Representatives Davis and Perlmutter covered that should perk the ears of all new Members and their families is a newer House policy that allows for reimbursement of Members for DC housing expenses. It mirrors a practice common in the private sector that allows for travel and lodging expenses to be reimbursable for employees required to travel for work.
This is a newer policy for Congress. Prior to 2023, Members were required to personally pay for their lodging costs in Washington, DC. And that's on top of maintaining their personal residences back in their home districts. Considering that a typical hotel room in DC is about $225 per night, and with about 114 session days a year. Before this policy was in place, Members would have been responsible for footing an annual estimated out-of-pocket expense of more than $25,000 in lodging fees. Now, Members have the choice of submitting these housing receipts for reimbursement.
Full disclosure: we at POPVOX Foundation believe that Members and staff should be compensated fairly for their service, and think that this is a great policy change that has reduced the personal financial burden of Members and opens the door for more people from different socioeconomic backgrounds to run for office.
Interview with Former Rep. Brian Baird [D, WA]
Aubrey Wilson: Next, we'll hear from former Congressman Baird of Washington state, who asked to be called Brian.
He was a clinical psychologist and chaired a university psychology department before serving in Congress for over a decade. While his career trajectory from academia to Congress may seem somewhat atypical, it's no surprise that he became a public servant, having grown up in a family that celebrated civic responsibility as a core value.
So when you found yourself after you were sworn in, you were given keys to your office. Looking back on it now, what surprised you most about what the realities were of serving in Congress during your freshman term versus what you really expected when you first put out that first campaign pitch?
Former Rep. Brian Baird: The day usually started at six and didn't end till eleven or midnight. Constant, constant demands on time is really important to understand. Having staff who know how the Hill works is really important. And getting the right staff, if you get the wrong staff early on, you can be in real trouble. And you know the paradox that you're taught: don't micromanage, trust your staff, put it in their hands, and that's good.
Unless you have staff who aren't fulfilling the job. So the old Reagan, aphorism of trust and verify turns out to be really important, because you may not know what you don't know. So somehow walk in that line with, I want demonstrated performance metrics. Not just tell me what you've done. Show me what you've done.
And, and maybe even getting outsiders to have a look at your operation from time to time. Are we really turning around our constituent mail rapidly? Are we really moving the legislation forward, or are we really making sure we're getting good advice on legislation, etc.? That's, you're not at the mercy of staff, but you certainly depend on them and rely upon them a lot.
Taylor J. Swift: Yeah, that's a great point. You mentioned the intensity of the job, how it, you know, it's very demanding how long the hours can be. This is very different from a typical 9 to 5 job or even being a physician. So can you talk to us a little bit about balancing your Congressional life with your personal life? While you were in Congress, you and your wife welcomed twins. Can you share a bit more about what it was like going through that and how you were able to balance that part?
Former Rep. Brian Baird: Well, one of the hardest things about, I think one of the hardest things about being in the role of Congress is you're still a human being. And with all the challenges, you know, during the time I was in Congress, you mentioned, you know, we had our kids. My father died while I was in office. You know, your life goes on and you have to cope with that while still being in the public eye with all the human fallibility that we have, the temptations, the shortcomings, the personality quirks, etc.
So finding some way to not let the job go to your head, you know? So I've, good piece of advice I got early on was, “tTke the job seriously, but don't take yourself too seriously.” And try to stay true to who you are. Which doesn't mean you never change your position. It means that your basic principle of making a difference.
If I had to say the single most important ingredient to being a successful Member of Congress, and by success, I don't mean necessarily that you get reelected forever or that you become a major Chairman. I believe it means you conducted yourself with integrity and with the well-being of your constituents and your country first and foremost. And if that means you only last one term, but if you kept those priorities where they need to be, then in my judgment, you're successful.
Now, it's nice to get reelected, as well. But the most important thing is, are you there for the right reasons and doing your best to do the right things? That doesn't mean you're always perfect. It doesn't mean you don't sometimes second-guess yourself, just..justifiably, but it means you keep your focus. So finding some way to take care of yourself, take care of your family.
Watch out for all the snares that are out there. Whether that's all the parties with alcohol, the relationship complications you can get into, financial temptations, you know, steer clear of all that stuff and then keep your focus on why you're there, which is to make a difference and try to serve the public.
Taylor J. Swift: That is such great wisdom, Brian. You know, you mentioned, the ebbs and flows and the intensity of the work, making sure that you have a great staff around you and valuing the right things while also being there to serve your constituents. With that, and this is kind of aimed towards the new Members that are listening to this podcast.
How did you define progress? How on the day to day were you able to know that you were pushing things in the right direction?
Former Rep. Brian Baird: That's a great question. You know, one of the things that's really interesting, I think, is the easiest part is voting.
The harder part is understanding what you're voting on. That's not easy. You know, actually trying. I introduced this crazy idea that we should have at least 72 hours to read legislation before we vote on it. And I really meant that the, the, the public likes that. The public says it's ridiculous that you're voting on spending hundreds of billions of dollars and you don't know what's in the bill.
Now, in fairness, oftentimes we've had many months of debate up to the bill, but sometimes it's a little switch here or there that could make a huge difference. And so, so really doing the homework, not just this advocacy group wants a yes or this think tank is scoring it a yes or a no, or the President or the Vice President or leadership saying, really, what is the right thing to do, recognizing that you don't always get to do what you think is right, but of the choices that you're given, what is the best choice?
So that's one thing is it's not just about voting, it's about how you vote and why you vote. You know what your incentives are; your personal incentives. Secondly, it's really important to know that there's a lot of stuff you do that's not about voting. All your casework, your constituent services, helping people get their Social Security or Medicare or veterans benefits or passports or whatever.
And really importantly on that, this is what, you know, sort of a side tip, but a relevant one. I made a point to ask my casework staff to give me the names of federal employees that help them, that were really standing up for constituents, and I would try at least once a month, sometimes more often, to cold call those folks and thank them for the work they do on behalf of our of our taxpayers and constituents.
And there's, that was really fun because, you know, I sometimes I’d leave a message and it would because of the particular, let's say Social Security worker wasn't there, I'd leave a message and I'd say, “Hi, this is Congressman Brian Baird.” And you know that at that moment they're going, “Oh crap, my day just went bad.”
And you say, leave a message that says, “I just want to call and thank you for the tremendous response you've given when my staff has called and asked for your help.” I particularly note that they help. People would tell me that they'd never gotten a call like that in their lives, that they would keep it on their answering machine.
So respecting the other people who work, and that includes your fellow staff, other Members’ staff. It includes all of the tremendous number of people in the institution of the Congress, the parliamentarians, the clerks, the, everybody. Having that sense of appreciation and gratitude and respect is is so important. So legislation is part of it. Then casework’s part of it.
The other thing is you can do a tremendous amount by just using the role of the office for good. I made some huge changes that did not require any legislation, but have had profound impacts on millions of people's lives. You do that through the caucus system, not necessarily your conference or caucus, but the small, issue-related caucuses.
You can do it by calling agencies up and say, “Hey, this issue has come to my attention. I'd like to talk to you about it and see if there's a way we can address it,” sometimes through the rulemaking process. Or is it through just other things you can do. So find ways to do all that, that don't necessarily always involve the legislation and that whole complexity of how you can be effective that way, I think is, is part of the fun of the job. But it's not always transparent when you first get there.
Aubrey Wilson: Those are some incredible best practices and ideas that you shared regarding especially the feedback, and, and just the appreciation to federal employees. Like you said, I don't think that that's done enough in this town. And I think that it can build such incredible goodwill for your office’s relations across every level of casework, legislation, you know, all the way up and to have kind of put that, belief into practice the way that you did while, as you said, balancing an over twelve-hour a day workflow. That really shows an amazing prioritization of, as you said, bringing that human element to your job, and so thank you for sharing that example.
Former Rep. Brian Baird: The other thing that I think is really troublesome is there's a world of difference between a faraway swing district and an urban east coast district. The folks in the urban secure east coast seats have a completely different life than those of us who spend our weeks every week. I flew 48 times in one year that was…And the only times I did it was because we had things we had to do out of DC. Forty-eight times. And, so that's a different world.
One thing that may be controversial, but we did it in my family and it worked for us. And we had our kids after we got, we started late at our kids, after I was in Congress and we chose for my wife...she had a job in DC. We chose to have our family in DC, and I had a member of the media from back home question that and say, “Does that mean you've gone uptown?”
And I said, “No, here's what it means. It means that I can go home for dinner and have my pager on. I live eight minutes from the Capitol, and when the pager goes off, I kiss my wife, my little boys, and I go back to the Capitol and I vote. And when I come home, I'm there. But, if my family's not in DC, and I spend my whole day while in DC working, and then when I arrive home, you want me to be at parades, town halls, debates, meeting with the Chamber of Commerce, meeting with the union, whatever. If I'm doing that, I'll never see my family, because I'll be working in DC Monday through Friday or Tuesday through Thursday. Then I'm back home, I'm working. On the other hand, if they're in DC, I can see them in the evening. I can take the little boys to school. And then when I'm out in district, you got me 100%. I'm in district from the minute I land. Literally, that's how it would be. I'm off the airplane. We're going to the first meeting and then the next on Monday morning, it's 5 AM and I'm going to the airport at 5 AM. to fly back to try to make the 5 PM vote.”
So for our family, and it's different for every family, it helps to have my family and my kids wife in DC. Not everybody does that, but not for goodness sakes. Don't demonize somebody who does that. I did it so I could see my family.
The other thing that I haven't mentioned, it's super important to take care of your health, take care of your physical health and your emotional health. We had a, we used to schedule a time we called “Members’ Health Committee,” and it was a fixed block. And the only thing that could ….Only I could change that. It's not…my staff could not say, “Oh, there's this special delegation, the Congressmen will change this.” It was, “No, you can't change that.” That's. And it sounded, “Members’ Health Committee” sounded very formal. So my staff could come in the middle, if I was running over, they could say, “Congressman, you've got that ‘Members’ Health Committee’ you've got to get to.”
And, “Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.” And so then I'd go and go for a run or a workout or something like that. The gym's a good place to make friends, as well.
And, and so find a time to take care of yourself. Watch out for the cookies and cheese and the alcohol and all the other stuff, because you find yourself grazing a lot.
And to put a pretty not so fine point on this. So I ate a lot of cheese. I sat in my chair a lot on airplanes. I was under a lot of stress. Five years ago I had quadruple bypass surgery. Do you think the Congressional lifestyle might have contributed to that? The stress, the lack of sleep, the lack of exercise. So taking care of yourself in every way you can, is really, really important. I think.
One thing I've done a lot is work with the Congressional Management Foundation. I haven't mentioned them yet. They're an incredible resource. And the other thing I want to add to that, I just talked about taking care of your own physical health and your own mental health. You got to do that for staff, as well.
Your staff are taken at least as much, sometimes more than you, and sometimes for things they never did. You know, you took a vote, you took a public stand. They're the ones answering the phone. They're the ones dealing with the irate constituents. They're the ones taking the flack. So you've got to be a good manager is not just somebody who gets the, you know, the votes passed or whatever the bills passed.
It's also a person who takes care of their team. And so being sensitive and aware to and being sensitive and aware, but at the same time, one of the things that was hard for me was understanding that when we as Members speak to staff, we are shouting, we can't help it. Not that we are shouting, but that the staff feels it that way.
So there are times when it's best for me to shut the heck up and have my Chief of Staff deal with it, rather than me saying, “I really don't like how Bob or Alice or Joe or whatever is writing this,” that's not the best time for me to intervene and say, “hey, you know, you got to write this better, but you probably did.”
But it's better for me to delegate that to somebody and say, “look, I think Joe's got a lot to offer, but his writing needs some improvement.” Or, “he didn't really prepare me well for that briefing.” So you sometimes have to delegate some of that interpersonal stuff because, but that doesn't mean you delegate the “attaboy” or I can't say attagirls now, but, you know, whatever that “you go,” whatever the you know.
You have to be able to be positive and nurturing, but watch out, because one criticism from a Member of Congress has way more. You may think it's just friendly feedback. It can crush somebody and you don't even know it.
Aubrey Wilson: Brian, between serving in Congress and the way that you've remained involved with the, Former Members of Congress Association, and then just also through the personal relationships that you've built throughout your life, when looking back and and also and looking back at your freshman term, but then also putting yourself in the shoes of new Members who are being sworn in, do you have any final closing advice as these individuals prep for what is no doubt going to have a challenging year ahead of many highs and lows?
Former Rep. Brian Baird: Yeah, the most important thing is we are so lucky to live in this constitutional democratic republic. But the constitutional democratic republic we live in came about through compromise, and it came about through extraordinarily bright, studious, brilliant people working together to come up with what they thought was a pretty good system. But it was not an easy thing.
It was not a “There's one right and there's one wrong.” So be willing to engage in that give and take of ideas, respect that other people. You have people from the other party that you represent as well, and their voice deserves to be heard. You don't have to agree with them on everything, but they deserve your respect.
And that's true of your colleagues in Congress. So try to preserve the integrity of the institution and the dignity of the institution so that it deserves the respect of the public. Then last but not least, and this is something to store away: When you leave office, it is not an easy transition. Become a Member of the former Members of Congress so you stay connected.
Be aware that the emotional challenge of going from something where you're the center of all sorts of attention and have a lot of influence, and you have a lot of meaning to what you do. When you leave there, that can be a real shock, and you want to be prepared, especially if you get defeated. That stings. It really hurts.
So, be respectful of that. To those who have come before. So former Members of Congress have a lot to offer. You know, you may say, “Oh, we're the ones in charge now. You guys are old has-beens.” Maybe that's true. That doesn't mean that you can't learn from those folks. I had several former Members who were mentors to me, and I would really encourage new Members to find some former Members who will be mentors and pick the wise ones.
Don't pick the demagogues, pick the people of wisdom and integrity, and listen to them because they will give you off the record, candid, personal insights that you can't get anywhere else. And then when you become one of those, stay involved, stay active, and stay connected with people, because you have a lot to offer.
Taylor J. Swift: Wow, that was such a fascinating perspective on the life of a Congressman from former Representative Brian Baird. I really liked his perspective on not letting the job consume you.
Interview with Rep. Maxwell Frost [D, FL]
Aubrey Wilson: We want to end this episode with one last perspective that we know will hit home, which is that of someone who is just wrapping up their own freshman term in Congress, Representative Maxwell Frost. Upon reflecting on the last two of his years, his advice for the incoming class is some that we hope will really stick with you. And like a good musician, he knows when to drop the mic.
Rep. Maxwell Frost: …and the last thing I tell people is, you know, you know, assume best intentions in people, this is normal life stuff, assume best intentions in people. Try not to take everything personally. And always, you know, just remember everybody, all your freshman colleagues are going to do the same thing you're going through, no matter how much experience they have. Or no matter how much they might want to seem like they're not underwater.
And so, you know, figuring things out, I've, I remember after orientation, I went and spoke with one of my colleagues, Becca Balint and a few of the other ones who had been in state legislatures for a while. Becca was the Democratic leaders in Vermont. Right. That's a big position there to then come here as a freshman.
And I remember talking to her, saying, I told her, “Wow, I'm like underwater. I'm sure you got it because you were in the state legislature for so long. And I'm just like, figuring out.” She's like, “No, Man. It's like I'm figuring out, too like, this is a lot.” And it actually really validated me hearing that from her because I didn't feel like, honestly, sometimes you feel that imposter syndrome, those first few days or weeks when you look around at a lot of your colleagues are coming from already being elected, or maybe they were elected for longer. But then you realize, and you remember the intention of the halls that we’re serving in. This is, you know, the House of Representatives is the truest form of democracy that we have in the federal government. It’s really of and by and for the people.
And it is, you know, I guess much love to the Senate, but we're much more of a Democratic body in the House in terms of the people getting to choose who's there.
And, if you're there, it means you belong there. You know, if you're there, it means you belong there. Remember that it's a borrowed power. It's a borrowed power from the people. That's what I always, you know, when I'm at home, I always tell them, thank you for this borrowed power. And I hope I'm using it the way you want me to.
Conclusion
Taylor J. Swift: Wow. We definitely got some great answers from the Members about what they wish they would have known from the very beginning.
I do want to take a moment and reflect on the bigger picture of being in Congress, both as a Member and as a staffer. What Rep. Frost said at the end of our conversation with him about this being a borrowed power really, really resonated with me personally. And I think that that's something that our listeners should really take to heart.
Well, I think Aubrey, we probably now have a good answer, at least answers, from our guests about what Members would have liked to know when they started out as a Members of Congress.
Aubrey Wilson: No. Absolutely. Taylor. And one of the kind of big themes to this entire episode that I just, you know, I think is so important. I'm so glad that our guests made was that you have to remember that even though you're a Member of Congress, you are still human. You have to take the job seriously, but just not too seriously.
You have to also recognize that you can revisit your work-life balance any time. So make sure to check in with yourself and your family about what you need to be successful in the job and in all the other aspects of your life. Because being a Member of Congress shouldn't be the only aspect of your life. It's important that you get those special times aside to figure out how to refresh and recharge so that you are better when you show up for the job.
And unfortunately, that's often the first thing that gets cut from your schedule, but it really is the most important.
Taylor J. Swift: I completely agree, and honestly, this goes for all the staff and the listeners out there, too. It's a really rewarding job. Congress and federal service, in general, is worth it, but it can be really, really hard. And sometimes, especially those days of consequence can be even harder. And if you're a staffer, sometimes it's even harder to get attention on those little details that could just be taken for granted because everything is so busy.
So make sure that, like Aubrey said, you're taking time to invest in yourself, invest in your relationships, invest in your colleagues, and find the good in everything that you're doing every single day. So we hope this has been a helpful conversation.
We want to extend an extra special thank you to our guests, Representative Bryan Steil, former Representatives Brian Baird, Rodney Davis, and Ed Perlmutter for taking time out of their busy schedules to share their wisdom. It's invaluable.
Aubrey Wilson: And thank you for listening, and be sure to join us next time on Gavel In for more insider knowledge and actionable tips for your journey through Congress. If you found today's episode helpful, please feel free to share it with your colleagues and be sure to go to our website popvox.org/gavel, where the episode pages have extra resources to make sure that you and your team are set up for success, both in DC and the district from day one.
Speaking of which, you can also go to popvox.org/futureproofing to learn more about how you can make a difference in your new role to ensure that Congress is likewise set up for success in the long run. Follow us at popvoxfdn on X and Instagram, and we're POPVOX Foundation on LinkedIn. Thank you for your service and we'll see you in Congress.
