Ep. 10: How to Approach the House as a Modern Institution
Over the last several years, the House has been undergoing an internal modernization golden age, led by Members and staff who have been inspired by the idea that an institution that works better internally operates more effectively and better serves the public. These improvements also translate into a more optimized onboarding process and resources for incoming freshmen and their staff. For this episode, Aubrey Wilson and Taylor J. Swift spoke with the champions of the House modernization movement to discuss some of the biggest changes that have recently come to fruition.
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Featured Guests
Congresswoman Stephanie Bice [R, OK] serves as a Member of the House of Representatives where she represents Oklahoma’s fifth Congressional district. Before her election to Congress, Bice spent six years in the Oklahoma State Senate, where she held leadership positions including Assistant Majority Floor Leader and Chair of the Senate Finance Committee. In the 118th Congress, Bice serves on several key committees, including the House Appropriations Committee, the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, and the Committee on House Administration, where she chairs the Subcommittee on Modernization. She also serves as Deputy Whip under Speaker Johnson.
Congressman Derek Kilmer [D, WA], representing Washington's sixth Congressional district, has served in the House of Representatives since 2012. With a background in economic development and a doctorate from the University of Oxford, Kilmer has focused on bipartisan solutions to economic and Congressional challenges. As the leader of the Select Committee on the Modernization of Congress for four years, Kilmer spearheaded efforts to make Congress more efficient and bipartisan, proposing 202 recommendations and establishing a permanent Subcommittee on Modernization. His commitment to bipartisanship and effective governance has earned him recognition from various organizations, including the Bipartisan Policy Center's Legislative Advocacy Award and Issue One's Teddy Award for political reform.
Congressman Bryan Steil [R, WI], first elected in 2018, represents Wisconsin's first Congressional district in the House of Representatives. As Chairman of the Committee on House Administration and a member of the House Financial Services Committee, Steil focuses on issues such as election law, House operations, and expanding economic opportunities for Americans. Before entering politics, Steil spent a decade in Wisconsin's manufacturing industry and served on the University of Wisconsin Board of Regents, experiences that inform his approach to reducing regulatory burdens and making education more affordable.
Congressman Maxwell Alejandro Frost [D, FL] made history as the first Gen Z Member elected to Congress, representing Florida's tenth district in the House of Representatives. An Afro-Latino with a background in community activism and organizing, Frost brings a fresh perspective to Congress as one of the youngest members ever elected. During his freshman term, Representative Frost served on the Committee on Oversight and Accountability and the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology.
Yuri Beckelman, a seasoned Congressional staffer with nearly two decades of experience on Capitol Hill, currently serves as Chief of Staff for Representative Maxwell Frost [D, FL]. A San Francisco native, Yuri began his career as a Staff Assistant to then-Speaker Nancy Pelosi [D, CA]. His extensive experience includes roles as Staff Director for the Select Committee on the Modernization of Congress and Deputy Chief of Staff to Representative Mark Takano [D, CA], where he advocated for enhancing Congress' science and technology capabilities. Yuri's career also includes time as a Senior Advisor to the House Committee on Veterans Affairs, demonstrating his broad expertise in legislative affairs and commitment to improving Congressional operations.
Dr. Casey Burgat, director of the Legislative Affairs program at George Washington University’s Graduate School of Political Management, is a respected expert on Congressional operations and reform. With a Ph.D. in government and politics from the University of Maryland, Casey has held key positions at the R Street Institute and the Congressional Research Service, where he focused on issues of Congressional capacity and Executive branch operations. A frequent contributor to major media outlets and coauthor of Congress Explained: Representation and Lawmaking in the First Branch, Casey combines academic rigor with practical insights into the workings of Congress. He also hosts the "Mastering the Room" podcast, further disseminating his expertise on legislative affairs.
Key Tips
Get tech savvy
Tap into the expertise and myriad resources provided by the Office of the Chief Administrative Officer (CAO), including the latest on artificial intelligence usage within House guidelines. CAO’s House Digital Services provides technological support and guidance to create technology solutions specific to Congressional needs, like the new FlagTrack tool mentioned by Representative Bice in this episode.
You have support
Attend briefings and events hosted by the Legislative branch support agencies including the Government Accountability Office, the Congressional Budget Office, and the Congressional Research Service and learn how they can help you succeed in your new role.
Support your staff’s professional development
Encourage your staff to take advantage of new offerings from the recently established House HR Hub and Congressional Staff Academy.
Be the “loving critic”
While you have the clarity of the fresh perspective as an incoming Member of Congress, take note of any inefficiencies or confusing practices before they fade into the background of familiarity. Members like you who noticed opportunities for improvement are the ones who have driven the changes that have made the House a more modern workplace. Consider joining the Fix Congress Caucus to voice your ideas.
Notable Quotes
“I really encourage new Members to both familiarize yourself with the offerings of the Staff Academy and encourage your staff to take advantage of those offerings because this institution functions better when we invest in our staff. There’s also now something called the Congressional Excellence Program that’s going to be focused on Members. I’ve never been in a workforce until I got to Congress, – though with the exception of Freshman Orientation – that didn’t really have any institutional professional development opportunities. That’s changing now with the Congressional Excellence program. And I think that’s going to be something that Members can take advantage of to get better at the job.”
“Where we’ve seen magic happen in this place is when we’re able to actually have discussions across the aisle with a goal of solving problems for the American people, rather than just scoring political points. And again, Congress is what Members make of it. If you want the institution to function differently, do things differently. You don’t have to participate in things that you think are dysfunctional processes. The only other thing I would advise is, there are opportunities to become an institutional difference maker. We have something called the Fix Congress Caucus, which is Members that are interested in making Congress work better. You can join that caucus… the Modernization Subcommittee on [the House Administration Committee]...is a great place for Members who are interested in working to improve the House. That’s a place where people can serve and make a real difference.”
“[Staff working for Congress] just want to make sure that you have the tools that you need to get even better. And it became this really, like, self-fulfilling prophecy of everyone excited about making the place better, seeing a vision where it could be better, and then being empowered by unanimous recommendations from the [Select Committee on the Modernization of Congress] to take action on it. And in the past five years the amount of improvements to the way that this place operates is just breathtaking. And, you know, there was a lot of worry that when the Modernization Committee went away, that somehow that momentum was going to go away. And I just want to dispel that notion: there’s still so much going on with new ideas, new proposals.”
“I think for me, there’s a lot of different ways that you can be effective in Congress. One of the most important for new Members particularly, is constituent services…We dealt with a lot of passport cases after COVID subsided in 2022 and 2023 – making sure those folks got their passports so they can travel and vacation with their families. Whether it is help with IRS issues or veterans’ needs, these are areas that every Member can make a true impact in their community. And it’s not legislative. And so for me, I can focus on the modernization piece of this and also focus on making sure that my constituent services team is focused on taking care of my folks back home.”
Highlighted and Additional Resources
Final Report of the Select Committee on the Modernization of Congress: The Committee was in existence during the 116th and 117th Congress. During these four years, Members of the Select Committee approved 202 bipartisan recommendations for House internal improvements. In the 118th Congress, the Committee on House Administration officially adopted the work of the Select Committee under the jurisdiction of a new Subcommittee on Modernization.
Committee on House Administration: oversees the day-to-day operations of the House of Representatives, including managing resources, administrative functions, and rules affecting Members and staff.
Committee on House Administration Subcommittee on Modernization: focuses specifically on implementing the House Select Committee on the Modernization of Congress’ 202 recommendations to improve Congressional operations, transparency, and efficiency, aiming to make the House more effective and accessible to both lawmakers and the public
Congressional Staff Academy: an internally operated resource for House staff and interns, managed by the CAO and available behind the House firewall.
Congressional Excellence Program: an internal House resource providing professional development training to Members of Congress. The Congressional Excellence Program is only accessible to Members, and you can learn a bit more about how it came about in, POPVOX Foundation’s Future Proofing Congress: How Member-Led Upgrades Are Optimizing Legislative Branch Capacity and Resilience.
The Comparative Print Suite: a track-changes platform developed by the House Clerk and the House Office of Legislative Counsel that lets Members and staff easily monitor changes made to a bill through line edits or amendments or to see how enacting a bill would change current law. The Comparative Print Suite is accessible to all House staff behind the House firewall at compare.house.gov.
House Digital Service (HDS): an internal House resource that provides technical support and innovation to House offices.
Further Listening
For more tips on how to expertly approach your office’s budget, check out episode 5 on “Understanding Your Office’s Budget (MRA).” And for many more insights by many of these guests on setting up your office for success, we recommend episode 2 on “The Structure of a Congressional Office and How to Boost Effectiveness Out of the Gate.”
About the Hosts
Aubrey Wilson is POPVOX Foundation’s Director of Government Innovation. Aubrey served as former Deputy Staff Director for the Committee on House Administration (CHA) in the 118th Congress. In this role, she coordinated efforts to make the House work more effectively, including overseeing the inaugural session of CHA’s bipartisan Subcommittee on Modernization. Prior, Aubrey served as Director of Oversight and Modernization for CHA during the 117th Congress. She is a former House legislative assistant and member of the R Street Institute Governance Policy and federal affairs team.
Taylor J. Swift is POPVOX Foundation’s Director of Government Capacity. Prior to joining POPVOX Foundation, Taylor was a senior policy advisor at Demand Progress, focusing on Congressional transparency, efficiency, capacity, and modernization. Taylor also worked at the House of Representatives Democratic Caucus where he focused on congressional modernization, budget, appropriations, education, labor, environmental, and tax policy. Taylor graduated with his master’s degree from The University of Akron, working as a teaching assistant for the Bliss Institute of Applied Politics.
About the Podcast
“Gavel In” is a nonpartisan explainer podcast series designed especially to mentor new Members Elect of the incoming 119th Congress, their staff, and families to help them successfully set up their new office, team, and Washington home base with ease and navigate the professional and personal challenges of life as a Representative. Gavel In guides Members-Elect about House Floor operations, office structure and hiring, budgeting, technology, security, ethics, and also the intricacies of parliamentary procedure, rules, and how a bill becomes a law.
Created by former Congressional staff from both sides of the aisle by the nonpartisan POPVOX Foundation, “Gavel In” features expert advice from former Members of Congress and their spouses and is a great complement to the House’s official New Member Orientation to ensure Members Elect get all the support they need to succeed as they embark on their new careers in Congress.
About POPVOX Foundation
With a mission to inform and empower people and make government work better for everyone, POPVOX Foundation is focused on ensuring that democratic institutions are equipped to address the “pacing problem” — the gap between emerging technologies and governance. Co-founded in 2021 and led by proud former Congressional staffers from both sides of the aisle, the team at POPVOX Foundation brings empathy, a deep respect for the Legislative branch, and diverse expertise to its efforts to modernize Congress and other governing institutions.
Transcript
Ep. 10: How to Approach the House as Modern Institution
Introduction
Aubrey Wilson: Welcome to episode ten of Gavel In, a podcast series focused on demystifying how the House of Representatives works.
Taylor J. Swift: We’re your hosts, Aubrey Wilson and Taylor J. Swift, two recovering House staffers from both sides of the aisle who share a love for the institution and are dedicated in supporting its ongoing evolution through our work at POPVOX Foundation. We're a nonpartisan nonprofit that works to inform and empower people and make government work better for everyone.
Aubrey Wilson: As you are hopefully well familiar with at this point, we were so lucky to spend the last couple of months gathering the perspectives of prominent Members of Congress, think tank experts, staffers, and Congressional veterans who shared with us their vast Capitol Hill knowledge and pulled back the curtain on what life is really like in Congress.
Taylor J. Swift: We also want to make sure we’re transparent. This podcast is not official House guidance.
Aubrey Wilson: For this episode of Gavel In, we are going to discuss “How to Approach the House as a Modern Institution.” It's a topic that Taylor and I love to talk about.
Taylor J. Swift: Absolutely, and you know, if you're a loyal listener to this podcast, you've heard us talk about modernization more than a few times, and we're really excited to wrap up our ten episodes of Gavel In with an entire episode focused on modernization and innovation. So as a quick little primer, Congress has this perception that it's very stagnant, that it doesn't modernize itself.
Well, that's actually not really true. There have been several efforts over the past hundred years driven by Members primarily to modernize the institution.
If we go all the way back to the 79th Congress in 1945, there was actually a bicameral committee that was created for the purposes of strengthening the role of Congress and creating new committees for the lawmaking process.
This actually led to legislation called the Legislative Reorganization Act. We fast forward a couple generations and look at another select committee that was created in the 102nd and 103rd Congresses. That also was a joint committee to look at how Congress needs to modernize and reorganize itself. Fast forward again to this generation, the recently established House Select Committee on the Modernization of Congress was created in 2019, when Congress saw the need to modernize its institution and its workforce.
There have been a ton of changes in the past decade to make the institution more effective and efficient, to help serve its constituents and respond to the times, to the challenges of our times.
Aubrey Wilson: Yeah, I know you're absolutely right, Taylor. And like truly, the last five years in particular have been such this golden age of Congressional modernization. There are so many new resources available for staff and new elements of Congress that have been rolled out to make the whole institution, not only more resilient to kind of the modern challenges, but also a more attractive and efficient place to work.
We have obviously totally, I guess fangirled over this movement over the last five years in particular. You know, you, like Taylor mentioned, you've heard us talk about it kind of throughout our episodes. And even if you haven’t, I'm sure that you've noticed that at the end of every episode, we flag that there's this resource that we've put out called Future-Proofing Congress.
It's actually a combination of case studies of all of the changes that have taken place. And, one of the reasons why I wanted to do an episode on this topic was that as freshmen coming in, you may not realize the resources that are available to you. And we want to make sure that you are aware of them and are aware of all the changes that have taken place to make Congress more effective and efficient.
Because not only are those things that now can help you out with getting your office off the ground, but it also shows you that there's really an open door available that as a freshman coming in with fresh eyes of how the institution can get better, you can really play a role in that. If there's something that you think needs to improve, as a Member, you are the institution you can drive that change. And so with this episode, in particular, we really hope that you walk away inspired.
Taylor J. Swift: That’s well said, Aubrey. Let's uncork the champagne for our final episode and gavel in.
Interview with Rep. Derek Kilmer [D, WA]
Aubrey Wilson: The first modernization champion we're hearing from — and so excited to welcome back to the program — is Congressman Derek Kilmer from Washington state. He served as Chair of the Select Committee on the Modernization of Congress when it was in existence from 2019 to 2022, and he currently is Ranking Member of the House Administration Committee’s Subcommittee on Modernization, which is the direct successor to the Select Committee.
Following our discussion with him, we'll also be welcoming back Congresswoman Stephanie Bice, who's the Chairwoman of the Modernization Subcommittee. So stay tuned.
Taylor J. Swift: So, Representative Kilmer, for four years, you chaired the House Select Committee on the modernization of Congress. And many of us at POPVOX Foundation have worked with you and your team and the committee over the past few years, both as former House staffers but also outside of Congress in civil society. So for our listeners who are a little unfamiliar with that Select Committee, can you kind of explain what they were charged to do and how the Select Committee is still having an impact today?
Rep. Derek Kilmer: You bet. About every 20 or 30 years or so, Congress realizes that it's not punching at its weight, and they decide to create a committee to try to do something about it. The modernization committee was the most recent iteration of that. The last one had been in the 90s, and the focus was to make Congress work better on behalf of the American people.
Our list of tasks was pretty broad. We were asked to look at, for example, how Congress can be a place that does a better job of recruiting and retaining a diverse workforce. We were tasked with looking at how Congress uses technology. Congress has been described as a 18th century institution using 20th century technology to solve 21st century problems.
And as someone who, when I arrived in Congress, was handed a pager, I witnessed that. We were asked to look at how Congress can foster more civility and collaboration within the institution. We were asked to look at things like the schedule and the calendar of when Congress is in session, so that there wasn't so much conflict in the calendar so that perhaps, people would be able to show up at their committee meetings and learn something and legislate.
So we were asked to look at a variety of things, and the outcome was over 200 recommendations focused on making Congress work better. And we've been able to implement quite a lot of those, and quite a lot of those are in the process of being implemented. And really, again, the goal was to make Congress work better.
And my hope is particularly for the new Members, that they're coming to an institution that is better poised to make a difference on behalf of our constituents.
Taylor J. Swift: So, along those lines in the 118th Congress right now, you currently are the Ranking Member on the Committee on House Administration, Subcommittee on Modernization. So there was the Select Committee for four years, and then it kind of changed into this formal Subcommittee within the Committee for freshmen who may not know about those efforts to update House operations.
Can you talk to us about some of those key recommendations that have been implemented during your time on the Subcommittee, and how they will positively impact the institution?
Rep. Derek Kilmer: Yeah, the primary focus of the Subcommittee is to try to implement some of the recommendations that were made by the Modernization Committee. Our goal was not to, you know, make a white paper that got stuck on a shelf somewhere. Our goal was to make change within the institution. I often joke, it's a little bit like that Saturday Night Live fake commercial about the bank that only makes change.
You know, you give us a $20 bill, we'll give you four $5 bills. You know, that was sort of the motto of our committee was, you know, we make change. That's what we do. And my hope is that new members who are arriving will see some of the fruit of that labor. So, for example, there has been a big push focused on staff. This is a place that can attract good people, that can retain good people, that can have a diversity of the workforce that looks like America.
And so some of that was tied to compensation. You've seen a pretty substantial increase in the MRA, which is the allocation of funds to Member offices. You've seen, a lifting of, of the limitation on for senior members of your team, the ability to pay them more than a Member makes. Which is, I think, pretty valuable if you want to retain senior staff and not see them head to K Street.
You've also seen, focus on professional development, both at the staff level and the Member level. There is now a staff academy that's focused on the professional development of our staff, so that they can get better at their jobs and that they can learn new skills.
I really encourage new Members to both familiarize yourself with the offerings of the Staff Academy, and encourage your staff to take advantage of those offerings, because this institution functions better when we invest in our staff. There's also now something called the Congressional Excellence Program that's going to be focused on Members. I've never been in a workforce until I got to Congress, though, with the exception of freshman orientation, didn't really have any institutional professional development opportunities.
That's changing now with the Congressional Excellence program. And I think that's going to be something that Members can take advantage of to get better at the job. There are other things that I think new Members will, will appreciate, from implementing recommendations. So for example, there will be a new open house at the beginning of the new Congress where Members and staff can learn about the various Legislative branch support agencies and how they can help members, things like the Government Accountability Office and the Congressional Budget Office, and the Congressional Research Service.
These are entities that are going to be very central to your success as a Member and developing those relationships and developing familiarity with those agencies is really critical. Members will now be able to co-host constituent service events in their district with state and local governments and with nonprofit partners. So imagine being able to do a job fair or a housing fair, or a veteran services fair.
Under ethics rules, prior to the Modernization Committee, we weren't allowed to do that. And so that's something that I think will be a great opportunity for the new Members coming in. We've also stood up, House Intern [Resource] Office to help recruit and train interns. And, you know, I was a Congressional intern. And, you know, frankly, it was not a particularly professionalized experience.
I mostly open mail in a back room, and on the last day of my internship was taught by the Member of Congress how to light and smoke a cigar. Which was the extent of my professional development in that internship. We're now going to recognizing that often internships are the sort of entry point into Congress and to Congressional staff.
We're trying to sort of professionalize that opportunity for entrants when they come in. And then finally, we've really worked to improve the casework transfer process. So new Members won't be surprised with calls about casework that wasn't properly handed off by the former Member. You know, there will be…the first. You know, this incoming class will be the first to get a new form, allowing the eventual transfer of their casework more easily.
And we think about this like, you know, responsible estate planning that has the goal of ensuring that cases don't fall through the cracks during transition. So I think you're going to see some real improvements. And the benefit is not just to the folks serving in the institution, but to the constituents that we serve.
Aubrey Wilson: You just mentioned all of these amazing changes that have happened to the institution that you've been able to be part of, and a lot of those have been, if not all of them, have been Member driven. And it really highlights how, you know, I think a lot of people run for Congress, and they obviously want to come to DC and change policy, but I don't think a lot of people think about coming to DC to help actually change the institution. For Members of Congress who are either existing, and, you know, they're serving their term or for the freshmen that are coming in, that notice ways that the institution can be better, what's your advice for them to how to get involved and actually being part of modernizing or updating the institution, like you said, to better serve all Members and also their constituents?
Rep. Derek Kilmer: Well, let me give a few thoughts on that. You know, one is how we comport ourselves within the institution. When I was asked to Chair the Modernization Committee, someone gave me a copy of a speech from John Gardner, who had been a Cabinet member under Lyndon Johnson. And Gardner gave a graduation speech at Cornell, where he talked about the importance of institutional stewardship.
And he talked about a good steward being a loving critic of an institution. And he said, institutions suffer in two ways. They suffer from unloving critics, people who come to an institution and just bash it, you know, treat it like the piñata at the party. He said institutions also suffer from uncritical lovers, from those who deny the sort of life-giving improvement that is required for an institution to get better.
And so, you know, as this new class comes in, as existing Members think about their role in the institution, I think each of us has to recognize that we are stewards of the institution, and part of that is being a loving critic of it. It's easy to tear this institution down, and Lord knows I'm often conscious of the fact that as a Member of Congress, I'm part of an institution that, according to recent polling, is less popular than head lice, colonoscopies, and the rock band Nickelback.
And nevertheless, I look at it as part of my job not to participate in the bashing process, but to work to improve it through the lens of being a loving critic. Beyond that, how we comport ourselves with an eye towards civility and collaboration. You know, the reality is you may find Members across the aisle that you disagree with on 99 things.
But part of leadership is finding the one or two things that you can agree on. And you know, where we've seen magic happen in this place is when we're able to actually have discussions across the aisle with a goal of solving problems for the American people, rather than just scoring political points. And again, you know, Congress is what Members make of it.
If you want the institution to function differently, do things differently. You don't have to participate in things that you think are dysfunctional processes. The only other thing I would advise is, you know, there are opportunities to become an institutional difference maker. We have something called the Fix Congress Caucus, which is Members that are interested in making Congress work better.
You can join that caucus. You know, we've talked about the Modernization Subcommittee on House Admin. You know, that's a great place for Members who are interested in working to improve the House. That's a place where people can serve and make a real difference.
Interview with Rep. Stephanie Bice [R, OK]
Taylor J. Swift: Next, let's check into our conversation with Congresswoman Stephanie Bice, who is currently the Subcommittee Chair on the Committee of House Administration Subcommittee on Modernization, which Rep. Kilmer is the Ranking Member on. Her story is a true example of how any Member who has an idea for the institution can improve it and end up playing a major role in the House's operations.
Aubrey Wilson: So, Representative Bice, thank you so much for joining us on Gavel In. Taylor and I have been truly looking forward to this conversation, because when we think of Members who have really jumped in to make the most out of their time in Congress, you never fail to be at the top of that list.
As one of the Members of the current Congress that has the greatest amount of committee assignments, including a subcommittee Chairmanship over the Committee on House Administration, Subcommittee on Modernization, you have a ton on your plate, but you seem to never be failing to deliver results kind of right and left across policy issues that really span the gamut.
So for our listeners who are unfamiliar with the Subcommittee on Modernization in particular, can you share with us a little bit about that work that you've been leading and how you first got involved in it?
Rep. Stephanie Bice: Well, so the Subcommittee on Modernization is really focused on how can we improve Congress for the American people? And that really spans a lot of gamuts, right? I mean, it can be anything from your visitor experience when you come to the Capitol. One of the things I learned fairly quickly is that we did not have a dedicated ADA access, which was shocking to me.
So things like, how do we improve visitor experience inside the Capitol, arriving at the Capitol. Everything to how a Member office works and functions. How we are, you know, providing consistent services, tracking information. One of the things that we did fairly early on, most of the listeners know that you can request a flag from your Member of Congress.
But it is a process. And these offices were having to track all of that information. So we decided to create, what we compared it to, like a Domino's tracker, pizza tracker, but it's a flag tracker, and you can actually track what process that flag delivery is in. There's other things that we've worked on in the committee, like a deconfliction tool for the House, for committees.
What that means is that, this particular platform can tell the clerks in each committee, “hey, your Members have three committees at the same time. Three committee hearings at the same time. They may not be able to make it.” So it's things like that that are really finetuning how the institution works. We also championed electronic voting in some of the committees. If you've ever watched a committee hearing, some of them take quite a long time to get through the roll call. And moving to an electronic voting system actually speeds that process up pretty significantly. And so, you know, those are just small ways that we can improve functionality. And I'm really excited to be a part of it.
I actually was asked to be a part of it. It is, as you know, a Speaker-appointed committee. So the Speaker chooses. And I think the reason that I was selected for the committee is because I actually gave feedback about New Member Orientation, when I was a freshman Member. I was in the state Senate, prior to being elected to Congress, and I had done a New Member Orientation and or a mentorship program.
So I sort of had an idea of what I thought it should look like. And our orientation certainly was impacted by the COVID protocols. It was a very, very challenging time for us to try to be introduced to the House and the way the House functions. But there were also things that I thought could have been, put in a, in a pamphlet or in an email, but we spent time in an auditorium reviewing details of things, and I didn't know that, didn't think were necessarily needed.
And instead, I wanted us to be able to focus on the things that are truly important to the Member, and then leave the rest of that for another time. And so I provided feedback to this, then Speaker of the House on what I think should be done differently. And when you offer that up, then they notice that you're willing to work. And they decided that I was the perfect person for the Subcommittee Chairmanship.
Taylor J. Swift: Yeah. That is fantastic. And we also just want to quickly congratulate you. You recently had three CHA bills pass the House, including two that I believe that were Modernization Subcommittee priorities, including, having the Congressional Research Service have better access to Executive branch data and the Constitution Annotated as well, which saves taxpayer money over time, which is great.
So I just wanted to say congratulations on that. And, you just gave some incredible examples and also some background on, you know, what you wanted to fix. You saw things within the institution that you believed it could do better, and you solicited feedback and you gave that feedback and it kind of prompted you into that leadership role.
So for our listeners, especially new Members and new staff, can you kind of talk about how doing that kind of thing shaped your perception of how to get things done without legislation? So going throughout, going with, different routes to do, implementation and non-legislative work that could, positively affect the institution of the American people.
Rep. Stephanie Bice: Yeah. I think that the House of the Modernization Subcommittee is doing, does have an impact. I was there was you may or may not be aware, but there was a Select Committee that was created two Congresses ago at the 116th and 117th Congresses to really dive into, where does Congress need to modernize? And they actually came up with a list of over 200 recommendations.
And so, being new to the Subcommittee and not understanding the work that had been done prior, it took me a little time to get up to speed. And so I really sat down and prioritized those 200 recommendations into categories. So what's feasible? What's easy to do? What can we do quickly? What is, you know, going to be something that doesn't require a significant amount of cost, because I was limited in the budget and we kind of narrowed it down to, you know, a two or dozen or so things that we decided to start tackling.
And we've accomplished quite a few of those. I think for me, there's a lot of different ways that you can be effective in Congress. One of the most important for new Members, particularly, is constituent services. I have an incredible constituent services team back in the district, and their job is to make sure that when someone calls my office, regardless of political affiliation, that their job is to do the very best in taking care of their need, whether it is a Social Security issue.
We dealt with a lot of passport cases, after COVID subsided in 2022 and 2023, making sure those folks got their passport so they can travel and vacation with their families. Whether it is help with IRS issues or veterans’ needs, these are areas that every Member can make a true impact in their community. And it's not legislative.
And so for me, I can focus on the modernization piece of this and also focus on making sure that my constituent services team is focused on taking care of my folks back home.
Interview with Rep. Bryan Steil [R, WI]
Aubrey Wilson: Taylor, to hear from both the Chair and the Ranking Member of the Committee and House Administration's Subcommittee on Modernization, and about how they got involved in the modernization space, as well as to hear about some of their favorite implemented improvements was so helpful and really inspiring. It's a really a side of what's getting done in Congress that most people haven't heard about.
Taylor J. Swift: You're so right, Aubrey. And our next guest is actually the current Chair of the Committee on House Administration Bryan Steil. I know that you mentioned, Aubrey, that institutional modernization is often work that the public doesn't hear about.
And I feel the same way sometimes about the Committee on House Administration or CHA overall, it doesn't have a ton of external press, but it plays a huge role in the function and the effectiveness of the institution.
Aubrey, you actually served as Deputy Staff Director on CHA to help set all of this up. So do you want to intro him as a guest?
Aubrey Wilson: Yeah, absolutely. You can't have a discussion about House modernization without including an overview of CHA, which Members Elect will actually get to know right off the bat, because it is the committee that runs New Member Orientation. So to hear about it from the best expert we have available on the Committee is the Chairman himself. Chairman Bryan Steil is a Republican from Wisconsin's first district, and he's been serving in the House since 2019.
Taylor J. Swift: You're currently the Chairman of the Committee on House Administration, and you've mentioned so far how, you know, trust in relationship building and collaboration at the very beginning is instrumental to success. You've also mentioned how you've already had a bill signed into law, this Congress.
And even today we had three bills that passed out of the House floor that came from your committee. For our listeners, especially those new Members and new staffers that are listening to this podcast, can you share a little bit about what the Committee on House Administration does and what they oversee, and how freshman Members and staffers can best utilize that Committee?
Rep. Bryan Steil: Great question, Taylor. Committee on House Administration wears many hats, and so you have to go back into the reorganization of all of the committees after World War II, when they consolidated them down, to roughly 20 committees. And I think what was over 100, as they bucketed different areas of work, the Committee on House Administration in many ways became a hodgepodge committee.
So it picked up really substantive front of mind policy work and election law where the number one committee was there relates, to oversight over our national elections or election contests. It picked up Legislative branch agencies such as the Library of Congress, which houses the Copyright Office. So copyright law falls under the Committee on House Administration, and then the operations of the House, which is as mundane as the cafeteria, is as important as New Member Orientation, and is complex as Capitol security, and making sure that we're operating the United States Capitol Police in an effective, efficient, nonpartisan way to keep the Capitol campus open and safe. And so it is a wide-ranging area of jurisdiction. But where a lot of new Members will come into contact with us is on the operations side.
So everything from choosing your office, to promulgating the rules about how you can how you can pay or hire staff, in the work that you can do or can't legally do, to be able to serve your constituents. And so making sure we're, you know, keeping all these Members in line with ethics, with the rules of the law, and looking at creative ways to say, how can we make adjustments to help people, in a modern era, communicate.
Right. So everything from, you know, the rules that would have been promulgated, you know, 20, 30 years ago when email was coming online, to artificial intelligence, which is something that we're talking about today.
Taylor J. Swift: It's a pretty vast amount of jurisdiction considering what the Committee has gone through over its many iterations over time. I know recently, as soon as you became Chair, you also created the Subcommittee on Modernization, which is looking to implement all of the Select Committee modernizations from a couple of years ago. And you all have been doing…such great work in that regard. Is there anything when it comes to New Member Orientation that you saw going through that you're kind of planning on working on this time around?
Rep. Bryan Steil: Well we're trying to bring down the unnecessary partisan aspects of New Member Orientation. And so Ranking Member Morelle, he and I came in in the same class, were both elected first in 2018. We've kind of have been, you know, friends throughout the process. It doesn't mean we vote alike. Doesn't mean we philosophically agree on everything.
But he and I have a great working relationship. And so we've really sat down at the beginning and said, hey, let's make some substantive improvements to how this is done. He and I have navigated through a lot of that, and I think we're going to be in a position to, you know, literally do the opposite of kind of that coming down the elevator and walking out, having a Republican bus and a Democratic bus, and giving an opportunity for people, to build some of those trust relationships that are needed.
Again, not in the sense that everybody's going to sit there and sing Kumbaya and think that, you know, we all agree on exactly what to do on tax policy tomorrow. No, that's not going to be the case. But, it is important that people start to know and trust each other. Because a lot of the work that's being done up here is absolutely essential, and that's probably no more so when we think about the importance of making sure that we're funding and supporting the men and women who are serving us in the United States military uniform, who are deployed across the world right now in an incredibly dangerous and challenging time.
Interview with Rep. Maxwell Frost [D, FL]
Aubrey Wilson: We’re excited to welcome back to Gavel In Representative Maxwell Frost, who represents the Orlando area of Florida. We started by asking him about new ways to approach the job as Member Elect and how to balance having a fresh perspective but still working within the traditions that come with being an elected Representative.
Right after talking to him, we also get insights into running a modern Congressional office from his Chief of Staff, Yuri Beckelman, who served as Staff Director of the Select Committee on the Modernization of Congress with Representative Kilmer back in the 117th Congress.
Taylor J. Swift: Well, Representative Frost, as one of the youngest Members to be elected to the House, what advice would you give new young Members about how to hit the ground running as a Member of Congress in the 119th?
Rep. Maxwell Frost: Well, I appreciate the question. And I think the first thing actually really has to do with mindset, at least for me, you know, I came into this place knowing that, of course, I come from a group of people that are severely underrepresented in the United States Congress in terms of younger Americans, but not even just in the kind of vernacular where most people think about young.
They, you know, sometimes even think very, very, you know, young. But we're talking about people, you know, in their 30s, in their 20s, and many cases, honestly, I consider sometimes even in their 40s, especially when we talk about Congress, and how older it skews. So, seeing yourself as a part of that is important. And then once you get in, you know, I've always been used to working with people much older than me.
I started working full time in politics right after high school on campaigns. And so I was always the youngest person around. And when I started getting promoted and managing people much older than me, I really had to go through this trial and error of figuring out, you know, how do I, as a young person, of course, assert my authority?
That sounds so intense, but like, assert my role as a manager to be able to do the work that needs to be done, do what I was hired to do. But at the same time, I didn't want people thinking I was a young guy, that I knew everything. And there was different ways I learned how to interact with people.
And a big thing comes down to the first impression. I think especially in this institution, first impressions really matter. So I made it a point when I first got to Congress, to get dinner or coffee or just have a meeting with a lot of the senior Members from a lot of the caucuses that I was a part of.
And I didn't even talk about myself unless they asked me about myself. I asked them a lot of questions. And it wasn't even just like a it's not a kiss the ring thing. I was genuinely curious about what advice that I have for me, because I want to be effective in the body. And I think it's like things like that.
The questions you ask people, are you quick to just talk about yourself, or do you genuinely want to learn about them, that signal to people in any institution? What kind of legislator you're going to be? What are you there to do? And that was really, you know, again, coming from working in politics at a young age, I knew that those first, that first month, those first two months would really be, I'd really be filling up the, you know, the canvas of the way people thought of me, you know, for the next two years.
And, and I took that really seriously. And I think we've done a good job as a office. Me personally, but also the staff I've hired. You know, representing myself and my values in a good way. And honestly, the last thing I'd say is the staff you hire is such a big part of that. I mean, you obviously want people that are qualified and there's a lot of people qualified to do different positions.
And then the next question you have to ask yourself is, is this person right for the culture? Is this person right for the team? And, you know, I always thought of specific scenarios. I always ask myself, is this the type of person to boast about the work that we do to their fellow colleagues, or other offices, or just be excited about it and want to help people?
And, you know, so I didn't want any pretentious, talkative kind of people like that in my office because that reflects poorly on me. So we intentionally look for people who like are down to do the work because they love the work and have more of that, you know, humility in them. So it's not just about the actions of the Member, it's about the actions of the staff, as well.
Interview with Yuri Beckelman
Taylor J. Swift: So, following up on those incredible examples of innovative ways to engage with constituents back home in modern ways, we’re now going to hear from Rep. Maxwell Frost’s Chief of Staff Yuri Beckelman about management modernization practices on the Hill – not only during his time as a Chief of Staff, but also during his decades of Hill experience as a junior staffer up through committee Staff Director.
Aubrey Wilson: Your career has seemed to align with a really unique period in the House's history where it's experienced a lot of internal improvements, and you've actually played a key role in those changes. For those who are listening, who are unfamiliar with the House modernization movement, can you share a brief overview of what kind of is taking place behind the walls of the House over the last five plus years?
Yuri Beckelman: Yeah, you know, it's been going on for a long time, but at a much smaller level. And I, like most people, found myself coming to work in Congress, in around 2006, and running into frustrations of why does this thing work the way that it does. And I just really loved working here. And so, I always dug into, well, what does it have to be that way?
And there became this big push by a bunch of smart people who had been have it going through on the same journey that I had coming together and working with some outside groups and getting some institutional support and saying, you all are so smart and understand this issue so much, why don't you tell us what we can fix?
And we were empowered by then Speaker Pelosi, and given this amazing committee under Congressman Kilmer and Ranking Member, I think it was Vice Chair Graves and then Vice Chair Timmons to really like, look at what was wrong. And it was just really fascinating as we started digging into this, as initially people thought we were there to say, “you were wrong, and you are bad, and all of you were failing.”
And we came back and said, “No, no, no, no, that's not what we're here for. We all think that you all are wonderful. We just want to make sure that you have the tools that you need to, to get even better.” And it became this really, like, self-fulfilling prophecy of everyone excited about making the place better, seeing a vision where it could be better, and then being empowered by unanimous recommendations from the Committee to take action on it.
And in the past, you know, five years, the amount of improvements to the way that this place operates is just breathtaking. And, you know, there was a lot of worry that when the Modernization Committee went away, that somehow that momentum was going to go away. And I just want to like, dispel that notion. There's still so much going on with new ideas, new proposals and action on old proposals that the Committee put together, and someone hears the term Modernization Committee and improving the way the House operates.
And the cynical nature of Washington, DC is the first response I always get is like, “Well, how's that going? I bet you, you know, that doesn't sound like a go anywhere.” And my response is immediately, “Well, a third of the recommendations have been fully implemented already, and another, like another 50% of them are on their way to implementation.”
There have been a lot of changes. The way technology operates is one of my favorites. We have this House Digital Service, which is building custom tools and, you know, and and we have always had a really hard time onboarding technology because we're a small client, we don't spend a lot of money, but we have big demands. And so now we're building stuff for ourselves, which is super exciting.
I’ll tell you one of my favorites: my first stint as a freshman office was, we wanted to host an event with a tax preparer, like a community service, like we wanted to host, like, a community event with a tax preparation service. And we're just told, “Absolutely no. That violates ethics rules. You can't co-host any events.” Let me tell you what. The last few months, those rules have changed. and it came out of a recommendation and the interpretation is different. And now you can co-host events with community groups that want to do constituent service-related events. Wild.
That's just how this place works. A good idea is like the driving force of this institution. And, you know, I'll give you one of like a small-ball one that everyone suffered from is, you'll get some frustrating calls. You'll get callers who are angry at you, just, like, really. And, you know, understandably, you understand why, but you also have to take care of your staff.
And when that angry caller who's not from your district has called the seventeenth time and is cursing, you should not feel that you have to take that call anymore. But up until very recently, when a caller called in and then they called to what's called the switchboard, as you know, they call the switchboard number, and “I want to be connected,” you couldn't tell if that was a constituent or it was that person who was going to call and verbally abuse your staffer.
And everyone agreed that was a problem. And but if you asked everyone that was in charge of it, they told you it was unfixable. That's just how it was. And here's who's responsible. And this contract that was signed ten years ago and that technology doesn't work. It got fixed. It got fixed, because we all agreed it was a problem.
We all agreed that problem was serious enough that it needed to be addressed. And now when someone calls to the switchboard, you can see the number, and you can decline to take that call, and you can spare your staff, what can be a, for interns, what can be a traumatizing experience being yelled at again and again.
And it's a small-ball thing. and it ran into a bunch of, “It can never be fixed.” And just like everything else around here, it could be fixed.
I want to make the point that I'm talking about a lot of administrative stuff, but I also want to make a point about the legislative process itself. All of these things apply. A lot of the work we did in the Modernization Committee was to try to make, to incentivize good behavior to make the legislative process more enjoyable.
So you want to engage in it so that it's not just so arcane and gate-kept, and that you feel at the end of the day that you were able to create legislative ideas that like, that impacted people. And it was an enjoyable process. And you got really good input on the work that you were doing.
And, and you can and you can change the legislative process as well. But once again, I would start with, well, what am I frustrated about? Rather than, you know, here's an idea to fix it, right? I always start with the problem statement. That's how you get people kind of bought into your mission statement. If this should be fixed because you've identified the problem, you all agree it's a problem.
Interview with Dr. Casey Burgat
Taylor J. Swift: Now that we've heard from some Members and a Chief of Staff on modernization, let's turn to a Congressional expert to talk about the space, as well. Dr. Casey Burgat is the Director of Legislative Affairs Program at George Washington University's Graduate School of Political Management. He's a friend of the pod and has been on several times, including our conversations around the MRA and House Rules. Casey actually worked at the R Street Institute and the Congressional Research Service, where he focused on issues around Congressional capacity and Executive branch operations. We're really excited to have him on the pod one more time. So let's go to that conversation now.
So Casey, just from a top-level perspective, why is modernizing an institution or a legislature important? Why is it that a workplace or an institution needs to understand its shortcomings and where it needs to improve?
Dr. Casey Burgat: Darwinism, right? Adapt or die, right. Like, this is true in the private sector. This is true. We want our government to reflect, if we have any shot at solving the most complicated issues we've got, you got to make sure that you're working with at least the right institution. You're giving it the best opportunity to succeed at a process level, at a staff level, at a resource level.
Otherwise, you're just banging your head against the wall and getting people more pissed off at an institution they're already pissed off at. Which is also why the politics of the moment make it hard for Members of Congress to take the vote to actually modernize itself, because modernization says it's admitting to your constituents, admitting publicly, even to yourselves as Members, that we're not doing the job, that we're promising people we're going to.
And that's kind of a self-defeating doom loop, right? If you pretend that you're just you're perfectly fine. They've updated enough that you need to…you don't need to invest in the institution itself. Then all of a sudden, decades and decades go by and again, it's 1980, and we don't solve 1980 processes anymore. There's no business that does it.
There's no private sector industry that does it. And Congress should be thought of as no different. And so investing in this stuff to make sure that you're giving it the best shot it can by getting the best and brightest staffers and keeping them around long enough to become good, effective operators on Capitol Hill, which, by the way, is like no other environment.
There is no school for that type of environment, so you want to keep people around once they finally learn the ways. To make sure that you're working with the right technology, because if you're trying to solve 2028 problems, well, let alone 2050 problems working with 1994 technology is just simply not going to work. Plus, you're wasting time and resources, working on a DOS computer.
Like, what bank would do that? What financial services would do that? What cybersecurity firm would do that? And the problems we're trying to solve are of the future. Right. You want a proactive Congress. You want someone to try to, preempt problems, than just respond to them. We know that Congress is very bad at responding to problems. It's always lagging in these indicators.
So it only makes sense that if we want them to be a proactive, mitigating type of a problem-solving institution, then they have to have the resources to give them that ability to not only speak that language, but invest in that type of research and proactive legislative solutions.
Taylor J. Swift: Yeah, I think we at POPVOX Foundation couldn't agree more. Even just from a return on investment perspective, all of the time, that is, I don't want to say wasted but utilized on old legislative processes. We've seen such an increase in efficiency from gathering electronic cosponsorships, you know, having better communication systems. I mean, I remember even when I was working, we didn't have Microsoft Teams or collaboration drafting tools, or even the The Posey Project, which allows staffers and Leg Counsel to understand how a bill changes the law before it's enacted, so that you can better understand what you're writing.
All of these tools have helped bring Congress into the 21st century, but there's still a long way to go. So for our listeners that are going to either be sworn in as a Member of Congress or are new staff, how can they get involved in this kind of work? Let's say that maybe there isn't…there might be a Subcommittee next Congress in the 119 Congress.
But how can a rank and file Member or a staffer in a personal office or a committee that isn't directly involved in the jurisdiction of modernization, how can they push this stuff forward, as well?
Dr. Casey Burgat: So before you might have to answer that question again, just because I think it's important to finish up the last one with new Members and staff, they are elected. I mean, they come to this place with that West Wing mentality, right? Ready to change the world. They were campaigning on certain issues and they come here, they finally have the chance to implement this stuff.
And oftentimes they're slapped upside the head with a two by four of reality of just how hard this stuff is. And a lot of that hard isn't just political hard. It's process hard where it is at the hill to climb of learning curves is incredibly steep, and that's often hard for Members to internalize. And then you have a choice as a Member and a staffer, to invest in learning in that ways of the Hill and with the hope of changing it ultimately, or to just be like, man, that is really, really hard.
I'm going to focus on my communications and I'm going to focus on my social media. I'm going to try to build a national brand to hopefully change it from the outside in. And we need Members who are able to do both, right? Like right now, the incentive structure is there to be an external influencer where you can build a fundraising platform independent of the party.
You can build a communications platform independent of the party, which is very different and hard for leadership to accept. But you also need to be known as someone who's invested in the institution themselves. And right now, there's too much disconnect between those two things. So to newly-elected Members and new staff coming in, a lot of this is going to be incredibly frustrating that you're going to walk into your office and you're going to try to put in a purchase order for a computer or a new software, and your default answer is going to be no.
And you're going to be like, “No way. This cannot be how the United States Congress can operate. This can't be the way that it should be.” And I'm here to tell you you're right. But to change the system, you have to know how to, where the defects and the faults of that system are, and then invest in it.
It's not enough just to trash it. That's one of the easiest ways to just get elected, to get cheap political points. But because everyone hates Congress, so why not pile on and say, yeah, you're right, I'm in on the inside and you're right. But if you want to change it, if you want to have a strengthening institution type of mindset, then you're going to have to have a strengthening institution type of mindset and action, right, where you can't be afraid of folks saying, why are you spending more money on Congress?
You got to explain to them, have the conversation to say, hey, if you want me to solve the problems, you think that I should, then I'm going to need the resources available to the Executive branch. I'm going to need the resources available to the lobbying shops in DC. Otherwise, I'm just going to become dependent on them. If you want me to be the one to solve the problems, and you do, then invest in an institution that can make that possible.
Or if you don't want to have that debate publicly or conversation publicly, just be known as a modernization supporter, right? That a lot of these votes are not political. They're not high profile. A lot of Members think that they're going to get busted in their next campaign ad by investing in the institution. They're not. They're not paying attention to that stuff.
They're not going,you're not going to lose your seat because you decided to give intern pay. So just recognize where the actual fault lines are. And be as someone, as an institution builder, which I think is a pretty easy case to make. And if you're not willing to make it, are you the right Member for the job anyway?
Conclusion
Aubrey Wilson: I think that ending this episode with the reality check of the need to support Congress is a perfect way to wrap up this podcast. As new Members and staff, you really are the institution and you need tools and resources to help you be effective. The House has made some major progress in the space as we've talked about, but there is more to be done.
So as you get settled, take advantage of all the tools available to you, but also make sure to make note of what you wish you would have. There are actually a couple resources that either got a passing mention or no mention at all. That I do want to make sure to call out before we wrap up today.
The first one is Microsoft Teams. It's available on all of the official devices, and it really has been something utilized by teams to really help with the communication between the DC and district offices. Another incredible tool that's been rolled out recently by the Clerk's office is the Comparative Print Suite, also known as The Posey Project, which Casey mentioned.
It's like a track changes for legislation. It allows staffers and Legislative Counsel to understand how a bill changes the law before it's enacted, so you can really better understand how implementation is going to work. The last one that I'll do a huge shout out to is the House Digital Service is essentially the technology innovation hub in the House that's under the organization of the Chief Administrative Office.
So when you get settled, I really recommend reaching out to HDS and seeing what they're working on.
Taylor J. Swift: It's such a great plug for all of those tools, Aubrey. And, you know, you mentioned it, a couple seconds ago, but it's really important for you as listeners, as staff and as Members to continually think about things that you wish you had that Congress could potentially create for you. We like to think of it at POPVOX Foundation, modernization is something that is never finished.
It is always something that continually be evaluated and improved and examined. And the reason for that is because all of these things that have been created have helped make the institution a stronger and more efficient place. But we never want to stop making Congress better, because we always want to be working really hard for the American people.
And so I know you've listed a couple of those tools. We've talked about it throughout our podcast episode, but make sure you check out our Future-Proofing Congress report for a ton more of those resources that are available to you.
Aubrey Wilson: And another way that you can get involved, even just within the institution, is to look at, potentially joining the Fix Congress Caucus. It’s a bipartisan group of Members that gather to actually have these institutional focused conversations and really help to identify where some of those improvements can be made and how they can be implemented, potentially during your first initial term in Congress.
Taylor J. Swift: Hear, hear, and then plus one to that. If you're a staffer as well, there's also actually a staff association called the Modernization Staff Association that looks at the tools and some of the resources that staff use every single day to try to make the workforce better from the ground up.
Aubrey Wilson: With that, let me say, and be the first to say thank you for listening to all ten episodes of Gavel In. You made it through our whole planned series this point. And we honestly, we would love your feedback. If you found today's episode helpful, please feel free to share it with your colleagues and be sure to go to our website: popvox.org/gavel, where the episode page has the extra resources that we've mentioned to make sure that you and your team are set up for success, both in DC and the district.
Taylor J. Swift: Second, if there are other topics that you would like us to cover, please feel free to let us know. We're here to be the support system that you need for you and your staff. So please send us an email at info at popvox.org and be sure to engage with us on social media. We love amplifying positive stories about Congress, so don't be shy about flagging them.
Follow us @popvoxfdn on X and Instagram, and we're POPVOX Foundation on LinkedIn.
And by now, we hope that you feel that you're not only prepared to take on the 119th Congress with confidence, but to support the resilience of Congress as an institution. Make sure you go to popvox.org/futureproofing to learn more about how you can make a difference in your new role, to ensure that Congress itself is likewise set up for success in the long run.
Thank you so much for your service, and we'll see you in Congress.
