Ep. 4: House Rules: What Procedures to Become a Pro on Pronto
In this episode, Aubrey Wilson and Taylor J. Swift engage with guests to demystify the House Rules to prepare incoming Members for one of the first votes they will cast. From covering suspension bills to the 72-hour rule, the motion to vacate, and recent trends with continuing resolutions, this episode provides rich content and highlights the resources available to Members and staff to help them become pros – fast – on Rules and procedure.
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Featured Guests
Dr. Casey Burgat, director of the Legislative Affairs program at George Washington University’s Graduate School of Political Management, is a respected expert on Congressional operations and reform. With a Ph.D. in government and politics from the University of Maryland, Casey has held key positions at the R Street Institute and the Congressional Research Service, where he focused on issues of Congressional capacity and Executive branch operations. A frequent contributor to major media outlets and coauthor of Congress Explained: Representation and Lawmaking in the First Branch, Casey combines academic rigor with practical insights into the workings of Congress. He also hosts the "Mastering the Room" podcast, further disseminating his expertise on legislative affairs.
Dr. Kevin R. Kosar, a Senior Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, specializes in Congressional studies, American politics, and government reform. With a Ph.D. from New York University, Kevin's career spans roles at the R Street Institute and over a decade at the Congressional Research Service. He cofounded the Legislative Branch Capacity Working Group and currently edits UnderstandingCongress.org and hosts its podcast. Kevin has authored several books on governance and public policy, including Congress Overwhelmed: The Decline in Congressional Capacity and Prospects for Reform. His expertise is frequently sought by media outlets and he has testified before Congress, contributing significantly to public discourse on government effectiveness and reform.
Former Congressman Brian Baird [D, WA], a psychologist turned politician, represented Washington's third Congressional district in the House of Representatives from 1999 to 2011. Following his tenure in Congress, he served as President of Antioch University Seattle and has since focused on promoting civility in politics, as evidenced by his co-authorship of the "Civility, Not Violence Pledge" and his ongoing work with various political reform organizations including the US Former Members of Congress Association.
Key Tips
Vote prep
A new House Rules package is adopted at the start of every Congress and is one of the very first votes all new Members will take on day one after being sworn in. As a Member, each freshman has the ability to influence this package and be part of the conversation to determine how the Chamber will operate.
Two roads for rules
A familiar term on the Hill is “suspension,” often used in the term “suspension vote” or “suspension bill.” For non-controversial bills, the rules are “suspended” or waived for the bill’s consideration on the House floor, paving the way for what is assumed to be a quick and relatively painless voting process. For bills that are not considered under suspension of the Rules, they are taken up for consideration by the Rules Committee prior to floor consideration. It is during a Rules Committee hearing that the guidelines will be determined for how floor debate and amendments will be handled.
Following the money
House Rules sets the guidelines for the Congressional budget process. Due to the importance of these pieces of legislation, the Congressional calendar becomes very driven by the movement (or lack thereof) of these packages, which can greatly affect the passage of other bills and leadership’s willingness to give floor time to other priorities.
Call in the experts
House Rules and procedures have nuance and can be very empowering when intimately understood. The House Parliamentarian, staff of the House Rules Committee, and the experts at the Congressional Research Service are excellent resources available to freshmen Members and their staff to help you get up to speed.
Notable Quotes
“Well, here’s one of the paradoxes of the Congress: One of the most important votes you take as a new Member is something you will know nothing about and that’s the House Rules package…The first thing you’re going to do is swear – take an oath – to uphold and defend the Constitution. Then you’re going to vote on a Rules package…And most every Member just votes how their leadership tells them, and they never read the House Rules. House Rules matter.”
“There are two basic sets of rules: the first of which is going to be your party’s rules. Each party in Congress is going to – every time a new Congress starts – they make adjustments to their own rules for how they will operate as a party. It’s important to be familiar with those. [The] second set of rules are the ones that are formally adopted by the House as the rules of the game and that vote occurs on the first day of Congress. Those are a whole nother set of rules about how the institution operates. And I should say, as an adjacent point, there’s also the rules of the budget process, which are a third set of rules that ultimately a Member should become aware of. And the good news is, when it comes to party rules and the House Rules, your voice matters because your vote matters.”
“This is something that folks don’t pay attention to enough. But the smart folks know that to change the Rules, you can really have an impact not only on process but also policy. There’s this very, very, very famous quote that kicks around nerd circles of Congress that John Dingell, a long-term Chairman, told his opposition, ‘I’ll let you write the bill. I’ll let you write the policy. But if you let me write the process, I’m going to screw you every time.”
Highlighted and Additional Resources
Congressional Research Service (CRS): Congress’ in-house, nonpartisan think tank. CRS experts provide briefings and policy research to Members and staff, as well as provide procedural training. Many CRS reports are made publicly available at everycrsreport.com.
Understanding Congress: a podcast hosted by Dr. Kevin Kosar with the American Enterprise Institute.
Mastering the Room: a podcast of George Washington University hosted by Dr. Casey Burgat.
119th House Rules Recommendations: a report from POPVOX Foundation with several proposals that emphasize technological and operational advancements for House lawmakers to consider to help redefine the House’s capabilities to serve constituents and fulfill its Article One mandate.
Further Listening
For more insights into how to navigate some of the more procedurally complicated aspects of Congress, check out episode 5 on “How Committees in the House Work and How to be an Effective Committee Member” and make sure to take advantage of the free resources available to you and your office provided by CRS.
About the Hosts
Aubrey Wilson is POPVOX Foundation’s Director of Government Innovation. Aubrey served as former Deputy Staff Director for the Committee on House Administration (CHA) in the 118th Congress. In this role, she coordinated efforts to make the House work more effectively, including overseeing the inaugural session of CHA’s bipartisan Subcommittee on Modernization. Prior, Aubrey served as Director of Oversight and Modernization for CHA during the 117th Congress. She is a former House legislative assistant and member of the R Street Institute Governance Policy and federal affairs team.
Taylor J. Swift is POPVOX Foundation’s Director of Government Capacity. Prior to joining POPVOX Foundation, Taylor was a senior policy advisor at Demand Progress, focusing on Congressional transparency, efficiency, capacity, and modernization. Taylor also worked at the House of Representatives Democratic Caucus where he focused on congressional modernization, budget, appropriations, education, labor, environmental, and tax policy. Taylor graduated with his master’s degree from The University of Akron, working as a teaching assistant for the Bliss Institute of Applied Politics.
About the Podcast
“Gavel In” is a nonpartisan explainer podcast series designed especially to mentor new Members Elect of the incoming 119th Congress, their staff, and families to help them successfully set up their new office, team, and Washington home base with ease and navigate the professional and personal challenges of life as a Representative. Gavel In guides Members-Elect about House Floor operations, office structure and hiring, budgeting, technology, security, ethics, and also the intricacies of parliamentary procedure, rules, and how a bill becomes a law.
Created by former Congressional staff from both sides of the aisle by the nonpartisan POPVOX Foundation, “Gavel In” features expert advice from former Members of Congress and their spouses and is a great complement to the House’s official New Member Orientation to ensure Members Elect get all the support they need to succeed as they embark on their new careers in Congress.
About POPVOX Foundation
With a mission to inform and empower people and make government work better for everyone, POPVOX Foundation is focused on ensuring that democratic institutions are equipped to address the “pacing problem” — the gap between emerging technologies and governance. Co-founded in 2021 and led by proud former Congressional staffers from both sides of the aisle, the team at POPVOX Foundation brings empathy, a deep respect for the Legislative branch, and diverse expertise to its efforts to modernize Congress and other governing institutions.
Transcript
Ep. 4: House Rules: What Procedures to Become a Pro on Pronto
Introduction
Aubrey Wilson: Welcome to episode four of Gavel In, a podcast series focused on demystifying how the House of Representatives works.
Taylor J. Swift: We’re your hosts, Aubrey Wilson and Taylor J, Swift, two recovering House staffers from both sides of the aisle who share a love for the institution and are dedicated in supporting its ongoing evolution through our work at POPVOX Foundation. We're a nonpartisan nonprofit that works to inform and empower people and make government work better for everyone.
Aubrey Wilson: We spent the last couple of months gathering the perspectives of prominent Members of Congress, think tank experts, staffers, and Congressional veterans who share their vast Capitol Hill knowledge with us and pull back the curtain on what life is really like in Congress.
Taylor J. Swift: We also want to be transparent. This podcast is not official guidance.
Aubrey Wilson: For this episode on “Rules of the House: What Procedures to Become a Pro on Pronto,” we're welcoming on to the show two former CRS analysts and think tank experts and a former Member of Congress. Together, they're sharing their insights with us on the intricacies of the House Rules and how they play a key role in the operations of the institution.
Taylor J. Swift: To our listeners, be advised, this episode is going to get pretty into the weeds. The House Rules of Congress are a set of guidelines and procedures to show how the House of Representatives can govern itself and conduct legislative business, including the introduction of bills, debate, votes, and roles of committees. And in the new version, those are voted on at the start of every Congress.
As a Member, this is pretty mandatory information.
Aubrey Wilson: This podcast is in session. Let's gavel in.
Aubrey Wilson: All right, Taylor, I don't know about you, but I am ready to nerd out for this episode. Let's set the stage: why are we doing an entire episode on House Rules?
Taylor J. Swift: Yeah. Great question, Aubrey. So first and foremost, if you're a Member listening to this podcast, this is going to be one of the most important votes you take. Period. And it's a vote that you actually take during your very first day right after you're sworn in as a Member of Congress. And yeah, you're asking, “Oh, you know, why did the Rules matter so much?”
Well, the Rules control the process, and if you know how the process works, then you can control how policy is enacted. So it is really, really important to know not only the Rules but what you're voting for in that Rules package, and that comes on day one.
Aubrey Wilson: And House Rules really do have subtle changes between one Congress and the other that really do seem to affect the flow of how the chamber works, as we've really seen during the 118th Congress. So, Taylor, you made the comment that the House Rules package is one of the very first votes that a freshman Member takes. Where can they even find the information on what they're voting on?
Like how what is your tip for, like finding that information to actually start wrapping their heads around what that vote entails?
Taylor J. Swift: So that's a great question. So the proposed Rules package are usually shared by leadership internally to Members that are going to be sworn in. So usually that'll come a couple days, maybe even a week or so before that formal vote. But it's really not something that is access to the public until the vote is taking place.
If you want historical information on Rules, previous House Rules, Chamber Rules, all those resources, make sure you go over to the House Rules Committee website. That's rules.house.gov. There is a dropdown tab where you can find all of the Rules of the House. All of the manuals for prior Congresses, the rules for committees, and tons more. And so all of this stuff can better prepare you to make that vote for the 119th Congress.
And like you mentioned, especially in the 118th, there were consequential House Rules changes that led to some big, big process changes in the [118th] Congress. I mean, hey, we had a change in Speaker. So the Rules package is incredibly important for all of our listeners to understand. And we're really excited because all of the guests we have on today are experts in this topic.
Aubrey Wilson: Yeah. You mentioned that the Rules package, it was 118th Congress that we saw that crazy change happen. Who knows what the 119th Rule package will look like? And I can't emphasize the recommendation that you made enough that just to kind of get your feet underneath you, you know, new Member Elects, really recommend that you go on to the Rules website, that Taylor mentioned, and even just read the past Rules from the 118th Congress, just to get a feel for the format of the package and the sections of the rules package, where you're going to see what those changes are going to be for the 119th, to just be able to kind of have a cheat sheet of what to look for when that new Rules package is proposed for you, or to you, right before that vote takes place on January 3rd.
Taylor J. Swift: And to help set that stage, Aubrey, we actually have two Congressional experts and Rules aficionados to start off the podcast. So, first we have Dr. Casey Burgat and then we have Dr. Kevin Kosar. They both are think tank experts and both former CRS people to give you insightful and, you know, actionable pieces to understand the Rules packages as a theory, but also practical tips.
And then our next guest after them is former Congressman Brian Baird. He actually shares a bunch of his personal account stories and gets really, really into the weeds to actually one of the major changes to the House Rules that was pushed during his tenure in the House.
Aubrey Wilson: To all of our listeners, get ready. This is going to be a fun one, or at least as fun as an episode of a podcast on the House Rules package can be. And with that, let's actually get to our first interview, who Taylor actually got a chance to sit down with. It's with Dr. Casey Burgat, who is the Director of the Legislative Affairs program at George Washington University’s Graduate School of Political Management.
He is a guru on Congressional operations and reform, and a former Congressional Research Service, or CRS expert, where he focused on issues of Congressional capacity and Executive branch operations.
Interview with Dr. Casey Burgat
Taylor J. Swift: Yeah, so at the beginning of each Congress, usually the House adopts its Rules package on the first day, and the Rules package kind of sets the Rules for how the House will operate for the two-year Congressional cycle. So, could you walk us through how the process of the House Rules package is created and enacted at the beginning of each Congress?
Dr. Casey Burgat: Yeah. So the Rules matter, and we know that in theory and in abstraction, but they actually have a huge import on how the place operates, how it's organized, and even some of the chaos that can be exacerbated or minimized just based on how the the Rules dictate how the House of Representatives should operate. So, one of the first votes new Congress takes is to adopt the Rules package, and that dictates a ton of things about process, procedure, committees, all of that stuff. And given that the House is a majoritarian institution, where if you have a majority, and usually that's along party lines, the majority party takes the heavy, heavy lead in authoring the Rules package. And they sit down with each other, they talk to different factions within their party to say, “Hey, what did you not like about last year's rules of how this place operates? What changes do we want to make, either publicly, or organizationally to update how the House operates to reflect our priorities?” Again, probably on a party line basis. And then you take a vote as a whole chamber to adopt it. And if you have 218, the magic number, then that becomes the new Rules package, which can be updated at any time with another vote, but usually, on the first day of the new Congress, they adopt that Rules package and only make marginal changes from there.
Taylor J. Swift: To talk a bit about those changes, let's kind of get into that. Do you have any examples off the top of your head of some of the changes that were made in between the 117th and the 118th, and maybe how that impacted the legislative process over the past two years?
Dr. Casey Burgat: Yeah, maybe one you didn't hear about, but this is how you throw out a Speaker, right? Like we saw this over a three-day vote with Kevin McCarthy, who was negotiating not with Democrats, but with factions within his own party who really were frustrated about being left out of the policymaking process. And they recognized that the Rules package was a good way in, that instead of fighting these battles, every single bill or every single Rules Committee hearing, they can change the entire organization just by adopting some favorable Rules package changes.
And one of those biggies that Kevin McCarthy had to negotiate was lowering the threshold to do what's called a “motion to vacate” the Chair, right? Basically, “Congress-speak” for kick out the Speaker, where he took it down to only one Member can put forward that resolution to take a vote on whether Kevin McCarthy or the Speaker, whomever that may have been, to keep their job.
And so just that one marginal change really altered the dynamic not only for the House of Representatives, but the entire Congress and what was able to get done, ultimately culminating in Kevin McCarthy no longer being a Member of Congress at all. So, again, this is something that folks don't pay attention to enough, but the smart folks know that to change the Rules, you can really have an impact not only on process but also policy.
And there's this very, very, very famous quote that kicks around nerd circles of Congress that John Dingell, a long-term Chairman, said, told his opposition, “I'll let you write the bill. I'll let you write the policy. But if you let me write the process, I'm going to screw you every time.” And there's some truth to that in that if you don't know the rules of the game and if you have a bigger impact on the rules of the game, then it doesn't matter how talented the other side is, you can dictate the outcome.
Taylor J. Swift: So let's dive into that a little more. I love that you brought up the quote, and I think that there's a ton of truth to it. Can we talk about some of the specific changes that have happened over the past several Congresses that have influenced the process? So maybe even the “72-hour rule” or the “motion to recommit?”
I think our listeners would be fascinated to hear a little more about what those are and how they affect the process.
Dr. Casey Burgat: So in terms of process, there's been across both parties, by the way, there's been some general frustration with rank-and-file Members towards their leadership. That the leadership has taken too much over, not only how the place operates, but what bills get voted on and when, the lack of amendment opportunities — basically, they've taken up all the legislative powers away from the rank-and-file Members who were elected to, and have some ideas about what policy should be included, and more than anything, just want to be involved, right? That if they're going to run for this place, if they're going to commit millions of dollars and half their life and being away from families, the least they can do is have a meaningful chance at changing legislation, and a lot of rank-and-file Members across both parties simply haven't felt that.
And so they, good, smartly, went to the Rules package to try to expand their influence within the legislative process and that took a couple of different routes. Number one, they strengthened what is called the “72-hour rule,” meaning that you introduce a piece of legislation that has to sit at least for 72 hours before it can be voted on, and then another one is “motion to recommit,” where you don't just throw away the minority’s involvement in this process, that it shouldn't just be, you get 218 votes, you can do whatever you want.
You want to have some sort of impetus or incentive structure for the minority to be a thoughtful partner in this, because we know that if they're not a thoughtful partner in this, then they're going to try to stall and burn down everything in their way. And so to incentivize that, they strengthened what's called the “motion to recommit,” which is just basically a last chance for the minority to stop a bill from passing, send it back to committee, or, more often, kill the bill and maybe potentially amend it to be reintroduced later.
So all of this is process stuff that's inside baseball, which really does matter, but all in the effort to to involve more people, more rank-and-file Members, take away power legislative authority that the leadership mostly the Speaker has assumed over the last several decades, Speakers of both parties, and distribute it back, decentralize it back to more Members.
But, but, but has to be said that a lot of these Rules that are adopted within the Rules package are not enforcing, self-enforcing, meaning there's no ref there to blow the whistle on “something is broken.” It is, there's no, “there's a parliamentarian there, but they're in an advisory capacity,” which means that the Rules only matter if the Members enforce them on themselves, right? It only matters if they enforce them on themselves, and they're the only ones who can. You can't call up one 800-rule breaker, right? And say, “Hey, this guy is not adhering to the 72-hour rule.” And you'll see Members of Congress, including leadership and rank-and-file, be more than willing to break their own rules, including the 72-hour rule, and vote on $1 trillion budget, even though it was just introduced last night.
They'll break their own rules if it serves their short-term political ends, or if they find it uncontroversial. And so all of this stuff can matter, but it only matters if enough Members care about it at the same time, which is tough to do.
Taylor J. Swift: So I, I love everything you just said. I think it was so beautifully articulated. I think our listeners, you know, they're going to be getting a lot of information during New Member Orientation in those first couple of weeks about these legislative processes, and a term that gets thrown around for folks that haven't been in this world before, is “passing a bill under suspension” or voting on “suspension of the Rules.” And for our listeners, kind of could you explain what that means and, and how that works, like what numbers are needed, how many Members need to be present in voting? Yeah. Go for it.
Dr. Casey Burgat: So in general, there's two ways to pass a bill. There's two routes to pass a bill in the House of Representatives. One is through the Rules Committee, and that is, known as like an extension of the Speaker. That's the partisan route. If you have a partisan bill, if it's really substantive and controversial that the other side doesn't agree with, you go through the Rules Committee and you need a simple majority to pass that, okay?
Under “suspension of the Rules,” it's a different route. That's route number two. And that is typically used for non-controversial and generally bipartisan bills, which happens way more often than you might think when you turn on the news and see that the two parties agree on almost nothing. And notice how I didn't say, non-substantive, right, non-substantive, where you can have huge bills including budgets pass under “suspension of the Rules.”
So when I say non-controversial, that doesn't mean it doesn't change a lot of things. You can affect a lot of programs and policies under suspension of the Rules. But what it does require is a super majority threshold, okay? Up to 66% of bills, basically two thirds of bills, go the suspension route. And that just shows you that more gets done under the suspension route because it's incredibly fast.
The Rules Committee route is slow, and you will have more time devoted to debate oftentimes because it is so partisan and controversial and so substantive, but under suspension, it's incredibly fast, there are no amendments allowed under there, the debate is equally divided between both sides at only 40 minutes, and oftentimes they don't even use up all of that, it is a way to process the House's business incredibly quickly.
And the trade off there associated with it is that you have to have a supermajority threshold. You have to prove that it is so broadly supported that you can go the suspension route with an increased amount of votes there. And so with two thirds of the majority, right, to or, sorry, a two- thirds majority with two-thirds of the Members agreeing, then you can process that business under suspension of the Rules. It's often labeled as a route for post office bills, like renaming post offices, which is kind of true, that's where it does go, just to give you a semblance of how non-controversial this type of stuff is. But a lot of stuff, a lot of policies, are passed under suspension of the Rules, where at least two thirds of the chamber agree to do it, and it can change a lot of programs and policies to say nothing of budgets, which we're likely to see adopted that way going forward with continuing resolutions.
Taylor J. Swift: Yeah, that makes a ton of sense, actually, let's dive into that a little bit. So obviously the appropriations process is annual, it happens every year. But we routinely see Congress, both the House and the Senate, passing continuing resolutions. So, for our listeners who aren't as familiar for what that means, can you kind of explain what a continuing resolution is and how it helps fund the government in the short term?
Dr. Casey Burgat: Right. So, we're supposed to have an annualized process or you go through individual committees. There's twelve appropriations bills,they're supposed to debate them, pass them individually, basically to have a more specified look at these individual programs and agencies and departments. That has failed in recent decades, not only in process but also in timing. And so a lot of times, if you've turned on the news in basically any year over the last couple decades, you've seen that we're about ready to shut down.
We're closing in on a looming deadline, the government hasn't funded itself. And to get through those, the Congress has basically two options: shut down the government or pass what is called a continuing resolution. And just like the name implies, it continues the funding level, in most cases, from the previously adopted budget. So whatever money they spent on DoD or whatever they spent on, Department of Education and FEMA, all those programs under the funding bills, they continue that level of funding for a specified number of days.
They can be long term, six months, three months, four months, or they can, we've seen continuing resolutions be 24 hours or less, to give themselves just enough time to negotiate a grander bargain, a long-term deal, without shutting down the federal government, which has a ton of very costly, not only financially, but personally, negative, consequences when the government runs out of money, it's just simply not what it's supposed to do. One of its major tasks and fundamental tasks is to fund the government, and oftentimes they come up on a deadline and sometimes even increasingly, more recently, blown through those deadlines without any funding bill at all, and that's why we've seen those stories about government shutdowns.
Taylor J. Swift: So for for our listeners, is this something that typically happens when Congress is divided, or have there been cases where both chambers of Congress have kind of been, under one party and maybe even the presidency, and the Executive branches under the same party or a different party, or is this something that they're kind of just running out of time because there are other, you know, legislative priorities or national emergencies? Or is it a combination of both, kind of depending on what Congress were in?
Dr. Casey Burgat: I'm just trying to think of all the permutations of divided versus united government over the last couple of decades when this has started to really become a problem. But there's no doubt that these problems are exacerbated when Congress is divided and especially divided with a president of another party, which has been more the default in our more recent decades.
So the correlation is there to where, which makes sense, right? They disagree about policy and one of the best ways to affect policy is to put money behind it. And so you can change a lot of policies or at least limit it or make it better by giving funding or stopping it. And so they recognize this where especially when legislation by itself is hard to get done, they know a budget must be passed and so this raises the stakes of, of how hard they fight on these particular budget fights.
And when the President disagrees with them, the veto threat is out there. There's a lot of constant brinksmanship, which is why we've seen news story after news story of the Congressional leaders — notice how I didn't say appropriators — the ones responsible for doing this, but Congressional leaders are going up Pennsylvania Avenue to the White House to negotiate directly with the President to see where the red lines are, to see if there's a compromise to be brokered, more oftentimes there's not.
And so it's just kind of become the normal way of doing business, of CR to CR, trying to fight at the margins of changing these policies, knowing that whatever was in last year's budget bill is more than likely to be included in this year's budget bill. But all of this at a deadline is just a bad way to fund a government.
It's a bad way to legislate. It provides unpredictability and uncertainty not only to the financial markets and the global economy, but also to people's everyday lives. And that's just simply, not good enough for a Congress where, again, this is one of their fundamental priorities. Or responsibilities, that is, priorities is a different word.
Discussion and Interview with Dr. Kevin Kosar
Aubrey Wilson: Taylor, the way that you and Casey talked about not only the Rules but also the legislative processes and patterns on the Hill these days never fails to both make me want to laugh and cry at the same time. But no matter what, I of course never fail to learn something. And actually, the same thing goes for listening to Casey's podcast “Mastering the Room,” which for all of our listeners, I highly recommend it. And your conversation with him really reminded me of the conversations he has on his podcast.
Taylor J. Swift: Yeah, I will also shamelessly plug I think “Mastering the Room” is a great 101 for a ton of the niche things that happen in Congress on a daily basis,so definitely check that out if you haven't. And yeah, it was a great conversation and, Aubrey, we wish we could have had you on. I do want to mention one quick thing Casey mentioned during our chat: the phrase CR.
So that actually stands for continuing resolution. And by definition, continuing resolutions are temporary spending bills that allow the federal government to operate and to continue when the appropriations bills have not been fully approved by Congress. So, something to keep in mind for those folks that are listening to this episode. Another fun fact — I don't really know if it's fun, but — since fiscal year 1977, Congress has relied on continuing resolutions to fund the government temporarily every single year but three. And that includes every year since fiscal year 1998. So honestly, it's par for the course for Congress right now.
Aubrey Wilson: Man, I definitely will. We'll kind of put a sneak peek in then. I'm pretty sure that our next guest is going to mention something about the budget process and how it relates to Rules as well. And so with that, we're actually going to get a second take on the House Rules and their importance from Dr. Kevin Kosar, who is going to walk us through not only what I kind of just mentioned, but also how the House and Senate Rules differ from one another.
Dr. Kosar is a Senior Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, also known as AEI, and a former Congressional Research Service expert who specializes on the US Congress, American politics, and the administrative state. He is also the host of another one of my favorite podcasts called Understanding Congress, which will make sure to link in the episode notes available on popvox.org/gavel.
Taylor J. Swift: For those loyal listeners of Gavel In, you'll recognize Dr. Kosar from episode one, where he helped break down the modern legislative process, and he'll be joining us on episode six, which is working with and overseeing federal agencies.
Aubrey Wilson: And so Kevin, what are the House Rules? Who sets them and what should freshmen know about them?
Dr. Kevin Kosar: Well, there are two basic sets of rules, the first of which is going to be your party's rules. Each party in Congress is going to, every time a new Congress starts, they make adjustments to their own rules for how they will operate as a party. It's important to be familiar with those. Second set of Rules are the ones that are formally adopted by the House as the Rules of the game, and that vote occurs on the first day of Congress.
Those are a whole nother set of rules about how the institution operates. And I should say, as an adjacent point, there's also the rules of the budget process, which are a third set of rules that ultimately a Member should become aware of and the good news is, when it comes to party rules and the House Rules, your voice matters because your vote matters.
When these rules are being formulated, and ultimately when they're being voted upon, your party needs you to vote yes. And that means you have power, because you could say “no.” Your party is not going to reach out to the other party to ask for their votes on their own rules. That doesn't happen. And when it comes to the first day of Congress and adopting the Rules of the House, well guess what?
The parties tend to vote oppositely, whether they agree on the Rules or not. And so your party needs something close to unanimity, especially if the chamber is narrowly divided. And so your vote is going to matter, your voice matters, and the Rules are going to make a huge difference in your life. They're going to affect the expectations that you experience as a party member.
They're going to affect your ability to be an effective lawmaker. And so it's really important as soon as you are elected, I know you have a ton of duties, a lot of people asking you questions, but make the space to learn the party rules that currently exist and take a look at the House Rules and start asking around about each of these topics, and see if others can clue you in, because it's not easy reading.
Taylor J. Swift: So you mentioned the kind of the different sections of Rules within the House. So talk to us a little bit about the differences between the House Rules and the Senate Rules. Most legislation goes through both chambers in order to go to the President to be signed into law. And so is it helpful that House Members and staffers also understand the Senate Rules?
And if so, could you kind of talk about the differences there?
Dr. Kevin Kosar: Sure. They are two very different chambers, not just in the composition of them: who is in them, the quantity of people and the unit of representation. In the Senate, it's a state. The House, it's districts. Senate’s 100. House has 435 plus some additional folks representing Virgin Islands, DC, etc. At the highest conceptual level, which I think is important for Members to understand, the House is a more partisan majoritarian institution, meaning that if a majority can hang together, it can usually move legislation. The Senate is a more consensual entity, and getting things done in the Senate is harder for a party. You may have 51 votes, but that doesn't mean you're just going to be able to ram it down the other side's neck.
So keep that in mind. Second thing is, the House tends to be able to move more quickly because it has a Rules Committee. What does the Rules Committee do? It propagates the Rules under which any piece of legislation is going to be considered and voted upon. And if you have a Rules Committee that says we're not going to allow any amendments, then you're going to have very little debate.
You're just going to have a ten minute speech or two, and there's going to be a party line vote, and then bang, there it goes through the chamber. In the Senate, there is no Rules Committee, so you're not going to have those sorts of Rules being churned out by the majority party from a Rules Committee perch, which makes things go faster.
The Senate, of course, has the right of a Member to speak without end, so long as they can keep doing it, they can keep going. The Senate also, it's worth noting, allows Members to take the floor and speak on a matter that's not even germane to the legislation. One of the things the House does to limit debate, to try to move things through and to get to a vote, is it has a germaness rule, and Senate doesn't have that.
So, if somebody wants to take to a podium and read Dr. Seuss while a national defense bill or something else is being considered, they can do it, and they can do it for hours and hours and hours. The Senate, usually to move any legislation, relies on something called “unanimous consent,” which the House has nothing like that.
Unanimous consent involves the Majority Leader and the Minority Leader reaching out to individual Members and saying, “We'd like to bring this bill up. We really like you not to take the floor and to read Dr. Seuss or do any, offer any toxic amendments. Would you agree to me offering unanimous consent so that we can then simply vote upon this?”
Again, the House has nothing like it. So they are two very different chambers and the Senate, in its best form, will act as a so-called cooling saucer to the passionate House, which can move legislation rather impetuously and in a rather partisan manner. In its least healthy form, the Senate is a graveyard. Good bills can go and die there.
So those things are worth keeping in mind. And it's worth keeping in mind that if you have one party holding majority in the House and another party controlling the Senate, ask yourself, as a bill is being teed up for a vote, whether that bill is likely to be accepted by the other party. That will clue you in whether or not you are engaged in a serious policymaking activity, or a partisan messaging activity.
And that may have consequences for how you want to vote and also explain to your constituents why you voted the way you did.
Aubrey Wilson: So to refocus on kind of the unique process and Rules in the House chamber, assuming that many of the House Rules actually may stay consistent between this Congress and next Congress, what are some of the most essential rules that you think are important for freshman Members to become familiar with?
Dr. Kevin Kosar: Well, not least, you should know that the budget process is supposed to conclude by September 30th of the year, because that's when the bills, the spending bills, the twelve spending bills, that's the end of date for them. That's when they cease to be effective, meaning that the money stops flowing. So that's going to drive a lot of the Congressional calendar in the House — trying to figure out when the spending bills can be moved.
All the other bills, to some degree, are going to have to be fit around that schedule, and that schedule becomes all the tougher as you move through the calendar year. So, keep that in mind. As for other Rules that Members should be aware of: Certainly you want to know the basics about how to introduce a bill, how to be able to stand up on the floor and do that.
Again, CRS can tell you that, there are different times of the day that are made available in the House for that sort of activity, but I would say more importantly is to learn the rules of the committee, some of which come from House Rules, but some are committee-specific about how legislation gets put together. It's an interesting fact that if you look at legislation introduced into the House, over the course of it moving through the House, bills that do move, in terms of the content, about 70% of the words change.
A lot of that happens at the committee level. And so that's an important place to understand: How do you amend a bill? What is this thing called a Chairman's mark? How do I have a role in the production of the Chairman's mark? Those are two places that I would focus.
Discussion
Aubrey Wilson: All right, Taylor. So let's jump in here really fast. Kevin and Casey just gave a great rundown of why the Rules matter, but what are some of the tips again about, like how Members can start getting familiar before that first vote and also before they really kind of hit the ground running in January?
Taylor J. Swift: Yeah, that's a great topic to discuss. So we said it at the beginning of the episode, our two experts just said it over and over again: Make sure you familiarize and understand the Rules, and not just what's coming up for your first vote in Congress, but also the previous House Rules. Understanding what came before you can better contextualize with what is coming next.
So that's a huge thing. Make sure that you understand how the Rules Committee works, too. So, understand what they're hearing formats are like, how they're used in regular order to bring up legislation, and also understand how the House floor works as well. You can do a lot of this by using the research resources from the Congressional Research Service.
And I know this sounds basic, but institutional knowledge really does go a long way. So, when you're considering hiring for your staff, try to hire a Legislative Director or even a Chief of Staff who has a background in Hill experience and knows the House Rules.
Aubrey Wilson: Lastly, I'll just throw in that sometimes it's just helpful to watch a Rules Committee hearing and watch the House floor. Turn on C-SPAN. Have it on in the background and get a feel for how these processes and procedures work and play out. And like you said, Taylor, having someone on your staff who can kind of fill that knowledge gap, whether it's your Legislative Director or your Chief, somebody who's been on the Hill for a really long time and is intimately familiar with these, will really help you save time on the front end and also help you kind of like I said, fill in those gaps and get to understand things maybe earlier than your colleagues will.
Interview with Former Rep. Brian Baird [D, WA]
Aubrey Wilson: Our final guest was also featured on episode one. Former Congressman Brian Baird represented Washington's third Congressional district in the House from 1999 to 2011. A psychologist by training, he made the transition to the House and actually became one of the leading expert lawmakers on the Rules package. We even talked to him about one of the Rules that he helped create that is still part of modern House Rules packages today.
Taylor J. Swift: You mentioned how important it is spending time reading the bill, properly understanding and having relationships with Legislative Counsel and during your tenure, you know, you were instrumental in the House's adoption of the “72-hour” or “three-day rule.” So for those listeners who are unfamiliar with what that is, could you just kind of walk through like a 101 of what the 72-hour rule is and your lessons learned from pushing for an institutional Rules change as a Member?
Former Rep. Brian Baird: Well, here's one of the paradoxes of the Congress: one of the most important votes you take as a new Member is something you will know nothing about, and that's the House Rules package. And, one of the things that I guarantee is going to happen to every Member, new Member, this is my one opportunity — if nothing else gets on, please make this in the program. The first thing you're going to do is swear in, take an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution. Then you're going to vote on a Rules package, and the Rules package, I almost guarantee you, will be unconstitutional. And the reason I say that is because there's a clause pertaining to the continuity of Congress, which lowers the requisite number of Members to be present to constitute a quorum below constitutionally mandated majority of the House.
That is in the House Rules, and most every Member just votes how their leadership tells them and they never read the House Rules. House Rules matter. Actually, it's like if there's something unconstitutional there, you need to fix it. And I will tell you the current Rules package, as they have been for about the last ten Congresses, is unconstitutional.
But the other issue about the Rules is, how does a bill become law? Right? Well, you see, you know, the Schoolhouse Rock perspective on that, but there's this whole, the Rules determine what bills come up, what you know, what gets a hearing, who gets to offer amendments, etc. And I said, as a personal standard, I don't want to vote for a bill if I haven't had 72 hours to read it.
Now, the problem is both parties tend to put that into the bill, and then they pass a rule waiving the rule. The first order of the business is waive the rule. But if we stand our ground on that, if enough of us stand our ground on that, we can actually get, leadership will hate you for a while, maybe for a long while, but you can actually maybe get better legislation and pass.
Aubrey Wilson: Regarding that Rules package and how overwhelming that first vote is, do you have any other advice for Members as they prep for that first week in Congress of being sworn in and then turning right around and having to vote on the Rules and getting familiar with that package?
Former Rep. Brian Baird: Well, I think you want to read it. Well, it's very interesting because, the Republicans, frankly, have done a better job of this than the Democrats,and I'm saying this as a Democrat, the Democrats tend not to make their Rules available very readily. And it is kind of a closed process. It may have changed since I was there, but I don't think it has a lot.
So you actually want to sit down with a copy. There will be a process for either party, the Republican Conference or the Democrats, where you can offer input. You'll be a freshman,they won't pay attention to you, probably, but it's important to put a marker down and say, “Wait a second. I'm not comfortable with this. I'm not comfortable. If this bill has language that says the quorum can be lowered below 50, down to ten to five to whatever, because that's not a real quorum in any sense of the word.” You know, you may upset a few people, but you may also get some folks who, people pay attention. If you get up and you make an articulate, informed, reasonable, case people may say, “I don't agree with that person, but that was pretty impressive.”
Now you're not doing it to grandstand, you're doing it on principle. Do your homework, be respectful, speak clearly, and people will notice and that has merit over time. It's not perfectly a meritocracy, but merit is recognized.
Discussion and Conclusion
Taylor J. Swift: So don't just take it from Aubrey and I. You can take it from all of our experts that we had on the episode today. Rules are something that Members and staff get really, really passionate about and something that really, really, really matters. So for example, we just heard from former Representative Brian Baird, who continues to advocate for updating the House Rules because we need to make a stronger institution.
That includes his work around the Continuity of Congress Commission. So, if that's something that interests you, make sure that you reach out to him directly, or the United States Former Members of Congress Association.
Aubrey Wilson: That's a wrap for today's episode. I think that if there's one key takeaway, it's that the House Rules aren't just a procedural formality — they're a foundational part of how Congress functions. From what Casey explained about the power of the Rules package, to Kevin's insights on the differences between the House and the Senate, it's clear that mastering these rules and understanding the Rules package before voting on it is critical to anyone working on the Hill, even though it's a vote that comes up really fast.
Taylor J. Swift: Exactly, Aubrey. And like former Representative Brian Baird highlighted, those rules can have a huge impact from day one. Whether it's the motion to vacate the Chair, the 72-hour rule, or even understanding how legislation can move under suspension of the Rules. These are tools that shape what actually gets done, or doesn't, in Congress.
And as we've heard today, these Rules don't just influence the process, they directly impact the policy outcomes.
Aubrey Wilson: We want to extend an extra special thank you to our guests, former Representative Brian Baird, Dr. Kevin Kosar, and Dr. Casey Burgat, for taking the time out of their busy schedules to share their wisdom with us on the House Rules package.
Taylor J. Swift: Thanks for listening and be sure to join us next time on Gavel In for more insider knowledge and actionable tips on your journey through Congress. If you found today's episode helpful, please feel free to share it with your colleagues and be sure to go to our website popvox.org/gavel, where the episode page has extra resources to make sure that you and your team are set up for success, both in DC and in the district.
Speaking of which, you can also go to popvox.org/futureproofing to learn how you can make a difference in your new role to ensure that Congress is likewise set up for success in the long run. Follow us @popvoxfdn on X and Instagram, and we're POPVOX Foundation on LinkedIn. Thanks so much for your service, and we'll see you in Congress.
