Ep. 2: The Structure of a Congressional Office and How to Boost Effectiveness Out of the Gate

In this episode, Aubrey Wilson and Taylor J. Swift glean insight from seven guests – three sitting Representatives, two former Members of House, and three experienced Chiefs of Staff – about how to approach hiring staff at the start of a new Congress. From honing in on what staff positions to fill first to sharing insights on how to foster a good working relationship between DC and district-based teams, to the importance of fostering mentorships, the conversation is packed with wisdom from some of the most effective managers on the Hill.

Congressman Maxwell Alejandro Frost [D, FL] made history as the first Gen Z Member elected to Congress, representing Florida's tenth district in the House of Representatives. An Afro-Latino with a background in community activism and organizing, Frost brings a fresh perspective to Congress as one of the youngest members ever elected. During his freshman term, Representative Frost served on the Committee on Oversight and Accountability and the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology.

Congresswoman Kat Cammack [R, FL], a Republican representing Florida's third Congressional district, is currently serving her second term in the House of Representatives. With a background rooted in agriculture and small business, Cammack brings a unique perspective to her roles on the House Agriculture and Energy and Commerce Committees, where she focuses on issues affecting working-class families, farmers, and national security. Before her election to Congress, Cammack served as deputy chief of staff for her predecessor and holds a Master's Degree in National Defense and Strategic Studies from the US Naval War College.

Congressman Derek Kilmer [D, WA], representing Washington's sixth Congressional district, has served in the House of Representatives since 2012. With a background in economic development and a doctorate from the University of Oxford, Kilmer has focused on bipartisan solutions to economic and Congressional challenges. As the leader of the Select Committee on the Modernization of Congress for four years, Kilmer spearheaded efforts to make Congress more efficient and bipartisan, proposing 202 recommendations and establishing a permanent Subcommittee on Modernization. His commitment to bipartisanship and effective governance has earned him recognition from various organizations, including the Bipartisan Policy Center's Legislative Advocacy Award and Issue One's Teddy Award for political reform.

Former Congressman Rodney Davis [R, IL] served as a Representative for Illinois' thirteenth district for five terms. Known for his willingness to work across party lines, Davis held key positions including Ranking Member of the Committee on House Administration and Deputy Whip. He also served on the Select Committee on the Modernization of Congress, Committee on Transportation, and Committee on Agriculture. Before his election to the House in 2012, Davis spent 16 years as projects director for Congressman John Shimkus, where he focused on helping Illinois residents navigate government processes and supporting local economic development.

Former Congressman Ed Perlmutter [D, CO], a seasoned politician from Colorado, served two terms in the Colorado State Senate and eight terms in the House of Representatives for Colorado's seventh district. During his tenure in Congress, Perlmutter held positions on several key committees, including Rules, the Select Committee on the Modernization of Congress, Financial Services, as well as Science, Space, and Technology.

Bradford “Brad” Fitch served as the longtime President and CEO of the Congressional Management Foundation (CMF), a role to which he brought over three decades of diverse experience in Washington. With a career spanning journalism, Congressional staff positions, consulting, and academia, Brad developed a comprehensive understanding of Congressional operations. His tenure on Capitol Hill included roles as Press Secretary, Campaign Manager, Legislative Director, and Chief of Staff for four Members of Congress. At CMF, Brad led initiatives to enhance Congressional management practices, strengthen public trust in the Legislative branch, and improve constituent-advocacy engagement. Known for his energetic training sessions and deep commitment to the institution of Congress, Brad has conducted hundreds of trainings for tens of thousands of advocates, cementing his reputation as a respected nonpartisan voice in Washington.

Keenan Austin Reed, a seasoned Capitol Hill professional, is CEO of the Alpine Group and Executive Director of the Public Policy Holding Company Board of Directors. Her decade of Congressional experience includes roles as Chief of Staff and top Policy Advisor, where she worked on issues ranging from climate change to rural broadband for the House Energy and Commerce Committee. In 2018, Keenan cofounded the Black Women's Congressional Alliance, a bipartisan organization supporting over 300 Black women staffers across both chambers of Congress. A graduate of Florida Agricultural and Mechanical University with both a bachelor's degree and an MBA, Keenan has also managed political campaigns and served in senior roles for state and local government officials.

Yuri Beckelman, a seasoned Congressional staffer with nearly two decades of experience on Capitol Hill, currently serves as Chief of Staff for Representative Maxwell Frost [D, FL]. A San Francisco native, Yuri began his career as a Staff Assistant to then-Speaker Nancy Pelosi [D, CA]. His extensive experience includes roles as Staff Director for the Select Committee on the Modernization of Congress and Deputy Chief of Staff to Representative Mark Takano [D, CA], where he advocated for enhancing Congress' science and technology capabilities. Yuri's career also includes time as a Senior Advisor to the House Committee on Veterans Affairs, demonstrating his broad expertise in legislative affairs and commitment to improving Congressional operations.

Key Tips

A few more, the merrier

If possible, Members should consider having their significant other and a key senior advisor be part of the interview process for their Chief of Staff, District Director, and Scheduler.

It takes a village

Once the senior leadership of an office is hired (i.e., a Chief of Staff and a District Director), these individuals can take the lead on vetting candidates for the remainder of your open positions. Delegate the interview process to your trusted hires; this will take a lot off your plate in the early days.

Master mentorship

Managing a Hill team is unlike any other experience out there, and you’re not in it alone. Find a sophomore or more senior Member (or an experienced Chief of Staff) to mentor you in this aspect, and take advantage of institutional resources such as the Congressional Excellence Program, the Chief Administrative Office’s Coach Program, and the House HR Hub. There are also many outside resources available to you, including those provided by the Congressional Management Foundation and the Former Members of Congress Association.

Getting on the same page

Once your team is built, begin establishing best practices for clear communication and overall mission buy-in. Sit down with your team sometime in the spring to write a strategic plan and experiment with technologies that can aid your team’s dynamics (across both DC and the district) such as the adoption of Microsoft Teams or Slack.

Wellness meets workplace

Working in Congress is a fast-paced and high-intensity job for both Members and staff. Team retention can be a challenge. Approach fostering a healthy office culture with intention and aid in your freshman staff’s retention by recommending that your staff use resources such as the Office of Employee Assistance.

Notable Quotes

The best advice that I can give any incoming freshmen is to, if you’re married, have your spouse join the interviews for your Chief of Staff along with if — you have somebody already identified to be your District Director….And when you get that Chief hired, you need to make sure you give [them] the final responsibility to make decisions in your office, because the last place you want to be as a brand new Member of Congress is to be the dispute resolution officer of your own operation.
— Former Rep. Rodney Davis [R, IL]
You know, a lot of Members have a tough time with staff. And I would just suggest to them, look back at your campaign, who was really helpful to you, who did you trust? Everybody could learn the job. They really can. But you can’t learn trust.
— Former Rep. Ed Perlmutter [D, CO]
I found great value in having a Chief of Staff that understood DC and who had some experience working with the District Office. You know, making sure you get this right in terms of staffing up is important: it has to be a combination of people with whom you’re comfortable, but also people who know the place and know how the place functions…making sure that there’s some experience built into your team, I think is really important.
— Rep. Derek Kilmer [D, WA]
Delegation is hard because by the time you have taught someone how to do it and handed it off, you could have had it done. And so to not fall into that trap, you really have to deputize and delegate and [be] hands off and really trust your team.
— Rep. Kat Cammack [R, FL]
When I was talking to incoming freshmen and they were considering their hiring practices, I generally pushed what I called the one-third rule. You want one third of your staff having Washington experience, about one third of your staff coming from the state and perhaps from the campaign, and maybe at least 20% people who know the incoming Member.
— Bradford Fitch, former President and CEO of the Congressional Management Foundation, and former Chief of Staff
So there’s an order for hiring…that I would recommend. The first position has to be a Scheduler. You have to hire a Scheduler if your Chief is doing your scheduling for you or God forbid, you’re doing your own scheduling, you are going to fail.
— Yuri Beckelman, Chief of Staff for Rep. Maxwell Frost [D, FL]
Let teams hire their own teams. I want to really hit this - don’t hire a Press Assistant before you hire a Communications Director. You should let them. You should let your directors be directors and hire their own teams if at all possible.
— Yuri Beckelman, Chief of Staff for Rep. Maxwell Frost [D, FL]
In the House of Representatives, the best way to elevate your management skills and your professional development, in general, is to participate in every one of the programs offered by the Chief Administrative Officer, the CAO. The professional development opportunities have just been enlarged to a point where they’re finally providing the type of training that [Members and Chiefs of Staff] need, which is job specific training.
— Bradford Fitch, former President and CEO of the Congressional Management Foundation, and former Chief of Staff

Highlighted and Additional Resources

  • Setting Course: Congressional Management Foundation’s “comprehensive management guide to setting up and managing a Congressional office.”

  • Congressional Institute: a nonprofit organization that hosts conferences and professional development opportunities for Members and publishes resources such as House Floor Procedures Manual and Surviving Inside Congress.

  • Slack: an app that can be adopted within Member offices to aid communication between DC and district-based staff. Microsoft Teams, a similar product, is also available within the House IT ecosystem. For more information on how to integrate these tools for House use, it is recommended that you speak to your Chief Administrative Officer (CAO) Customer Advocate who can connect you with your system administrator at House Information Resources.

  • POPVOX Foundation: a nonpartisan, nonprofit organization, POPVOX Foundation is led by former Congressional staffers from both sides of the aisle that bring empathy, a deep respect for the Legislative branch, and diverse expertise to its efforts to modernize Congress and other governing institutions.

  • CAO HR Hub, Coach Program, the Congressional Excellence Program, and the House Intern Resource Office: Once you have access to the internal House Network, we also recommend that you utilize the resources made available through these vital programs.

Further Listening

For more insight on setting up a freshman office for success, we recommend you check out episode 5 on the Members’ Representational Allowance and episode 9 on “I Wish I Knew Then What I Know Now.”

About the Hosts

Aubrey Wilson is POPVOX Foundation’s Director of Government Innovation. Aubrey served as former Deputy Staff Director for the Committee on House Administration (CHA) in the 118th Congress. In this role, she coordinated efforts to make the House work more effectively, including overseeing the inaugural session of CHA’s bipartisan Subcommittee on Modernization. Prior, Aubrey served as Director of Oversight and Modernization for CHA during the 117th Congress. She is a former House legislative assistant and member of the R Street Institute Governance Policy and federal affairs team.

Taylor J. Swift is POPVOX Foundation’s Director of Government Capacity. Prior to joining POPVOX Foundation, Taylor was a senior policy advisor at Demand Progress, focusing on Congressional transparency, efficiency, capacity, and modernization. Taylor also worked at the House of Representatives Democratic Caucus where he focused on congressional modernization, budget, appropriations, education, labor, environmental, and tax policy. Taylor graduated with his master’s degree from The University of Akron, working as a teaching assistant for the Bliss Institute of Applied Politics.

About the Podcast

“Gavel In” is a nonpartisan explainer podcast series designed especially to mentor new Members Elect of the incoming 119th Congress, their staff, and families to help them successfully set up their new office, team, and Washington home base with ease and navigate the professional and personal challenges of life as a Representative. Gavel In guides Members-Elect about House Floor operations, office structure and hiring, budgeting, technology, security, ethics, and also the intricacies of parliamentary procedure, rules, and how a bill becomes a law.

Created by former Congressional staff from both sides of the aisle by the nonpartisan POPVOX Foundation, “Gavel In” features expert advice from former Members of Congress and their spouses and is a great complement to the House’s official New Member Orientation to ensure Members Elect get all the support they need to succeed as they embark on their new careers in Congress.

About POPVOX Foundation

With a mission to inform and empower people and make government work better for everyone, POPVOX Foundation is focused on ensuring that democratic institutions are equipped to address the “pacing problem” — the gap between emerging technologies and governance. Co-founded in 2021 and led by proud former Congressional staffers from both sides of the aisle, the team at POPVOX Foundation brings empathy, a deep respect for the Legislative branch, and diverse expertise to its efforts to modernize Congress and other governing institutions.

Transcript

Ep. 2: The Structure of a Congressional Office and How to Boost Effectiveness Out of the Gate

Introduction

Aubrey Wilson: Welcome to episode two of Gavel In, a podcast series by former Congressional staffers, focused on demystifying how the House of Representatives works. We've created this show for incoming House freshmen, their spouses, and staff as an off-the-Hill resource to supplement your official New Member Orientation onboarding. So that you're extra set up for success and your new career in Congress.

Taylor J. Swift: We're your hosts, Aubrey Wilson and Taylor J. Swift, two recovering House staffers from both sides of the aisle who share a love for the institution and are dedicated in supporting its ongoing evolution through our work at POPVOX Foundation. We're a nonpartisan nonprofit that helps work to inform and empower each and every one of you to make government work better for all.

Aubrey Wilson: And in making Congress work better, we know that starts with empowering Congresspeople and your staff. That's why we spent the last couple of months gathering the perspective of prominent Members of Congress, think tank experts, staffers, and Congressional veterans who share with us their Capitol Hill knowledge. And we got to pull back the curtain on what life is really like as a Member of Congress.

Taylor J. Swift: We also want to be transparent. This podcast is not official guidance.

Aubrey Wilson: This episode's topic is “The Seat that Comes with Eighteen Staff: The Structure of a Congressional Office, and How to Utilize Them to Boost Your Effectiveness Out of the Gate.”

Taylor J. Swift: We've asked several current and former Members of Congress, a Congressional staff expert, and a Capitol Hill veteran to talk through meaningful and effective ways to hire staff, why mentorship is important in the halls of the House, and the importance of having strong relationships between the district and DC based staff. You're not going to want to skip this one.

Aubrey Wilson: Without further ado, let's gavel in.

Taylor J. Swift: All right, Aubrey, we're here for an episode about staffing. And this is a topic near and dear to us because we were once Congressional staffers. So when it comes to approaching this issue, what comes to mind for you as the biggest pitfalls or best practices that you've learned from your own experience?

Aubrey Wilson: Oh my gosh, Taylor, when I was first hired as a Congressional staffer, I had no idea how much of a role that staff plays and how instrumental they are to the success of a Member's office, especially during their freshman term. A Congressional office is a village, and it also takes a village to be successful. Offices are really high paced and high-stress environments, and unfortunately, even in the last couple of years, there also is an added element of safety that adds some extra stress to that.

And all of that leads to the need for Members to be really intentional with their hiring. A Congressional staff gets really close with each other. You're really in the trenches together, and some of my lifelong friends are the people that I was in that original office with, as my, you know, when I first joined Congress. And so how do you hire your staff during your freshman term, can really set the tone for essentially your entire legacy in Congress.

Taylor J. Swift: I think that's absolutely right. And, you know, this is anecdotal for me, but one of the reasons why I continue to love being in this space is Congress, I think often is overlooked as a workforce. Right? People think of Congress and they think of lawmakers and they think of passing legislation. They think of oversight, but they don't actually think about it as a workforce until you actually are there and are seeing it in real time.

Staff are often the ones behind the scenes doing a ton of the background to make sure that the Members are best set up for success, but until recently, there actually weren't a ton of resources to help staff and help new Members navigate that initial hiring.

And so, you know, I'm our Director of Government Capacity here at POPVOX Foundation. And for years, I've been pushing to create better working conditions and pay for Congressional staffing, that have actually led to stronger staffing pipelines and better access and resources for staff. So just to name a few, and we'll get into these things throughout the episodes.

The newly created HR Hub for staff, the CAO Coach Program, the Member Excellence Program, and of course, the newly revitalized Congressional Staff Academy. All of these tools can be used at any point to help out staff and to help out Members make better decisions from a workforce perspective, so that they're set up for success. So honestly, I'm really excited for this episode.

Interview with Rep. Maxwell Frost [D, FL]

Aubrey Wilson: Well, with that, our first guest is Democratic Congressman Maxwell Frost, who made history as the first Gen-Z Member elected to Congress, where he represents Florida's 10th district. Representative Frost has some unique insights on hiring, including the value of hiring people from his district.

Taylor J. Swift: So, for our listeners, they're going to be going through a lot of onboarding and hiring when they go through New Member Orientation and in the weeks after. Members of Congress, their staff is actually divided between their DC office and their district office. And, you know, we would love to hear some advice and strategies that you found that work well to keep your entire staff working as one team, even though they are physically located, you know, hundreds if not thousands of miles apart in some cases.

Rep. Maxwell Frost: Yeah, this is a great question. And I think, you know, the staffing breakdown, I think it looks different for every office, obviously. And I think people have to really think about your priorities, think about the work you want to do. And obviously this is a very obvious thing to say ,but you know, the more staff you put towards a specific thing, you know, the more capacity you're going to have to do that and so it's just something to think of.

So for instance, you know, we have a three person comms team. A lot of Members will typically have maybe just two people on their comms team. And part of the reason we have three is because we do a lot of comms, we do a lot of press. Now, part of that has to do with, you know, being the youngest Member of Congress, I have a little bit of a higher profile than other Members and so that is a bigger burden on my staff in terms of press requests and stuff like that. And so I, we knew, that there we would need a little bit more of that capacity. But not just that, but because arts and culture was something I'm really excited about.

We want to engage as an office with artists, with people outside of government on the subject and it's something we knew that we wanted and that we needed. I'm also very passionate about the branding of the office and the way things look and the way things feel, and that's why we have a Creative Director as well. So I think it's just important to really sit down to account for, like, what are the things you want to prioritize and obviously hire to make that happen.

In terms of the relationship between district and the DC office? Well, the first thing is, you know, I'm a first time legislator, so I always knew that my Chief would be someone who's been here for a while. And so, I hired a Chief who has been on the Hill for, like, sixteen years, Yuri.

And the good thing is, he had just finished being the Staff Director of the Modernization Committee, which then our whole thing was looking for problems and giving solutions. So, you know, we sat down and had a conversation and I was like, what are the biggest problems you saw? How can we, you know, fix that in our office so we don't have to deal with it.

And that was one of the things he brought up that there sometimes is a lot of division between the DC and the office in the district, and sometimes it's not even just being disconnected. Sometimes it becomes resentment in certain offices where there's a sense of resentment, that the DO [district office] would have for DC and vice versa. And so we want to make sure we didn't have that.

I think part of it, number one, is just having really well, I think the first thing is just, I mean, hiring really good managers. Who naturally have a very communicative spirit, if that makes sense. You know, like, they naturally want to tell people about the things they're doing. They naturally want to involve other Members of the team in their work, and they're naturally opposed to being in a silo.

You know, if you hire managers that operate that way, then the operation is more likely to be connected. And, you know, there's certain personalities of people who want to own everything. And, you know, they'll tell you when it's done. And that's the right attitude on certain things, but I think on most of the things we do in this office, as you all know, coming from the Hill there, it's very rare that a project will only include one person.

I mean, most of the time there's several people that have to be pulled in to make something happen, within different departments. And that collaboration extending to the DO, I think is really important in bringing us together here. The other thing too, that's really cool though, is I hired two senior people in my DO. One of them comes from the city government of the city, my biggest municipality in my district.

And the other one, helped run affordable housing for our countywide government. And so they work in the DO. But they also have…they help us in terms of the way we interact with our municipal governments in terms of policy and in terms of grants. And so because of that, there's a natural communication between the DO and DC on granting opportunities, on how we are competitive with that, but also how the grants impact, you know, the policy changes we want to see.

We're very involved with local government stuff. And so either way, those are just, you know, and then there's the ones that are that everyone does. But I think it matters how you do, things like retreats. Things like, you know, all staff calls. You know, these are not new things I'm going to claim that we made up.

But I think the way that you go about managing them can determine how effective they are. So, you know, is your retreat, does your retreat have, like, a good amount of fellowship in it? Does it have kind of the run of the mill ice breaker thing, or is it a little bit more interesting? That really helps us feel more connected with the work?

Are you just talking about process? But are you also talking about passion? Like what brings everyone to the table? All these different things I think are really important.

Aubrey Wilson: You really highlight the difference of checking the box exercises of how to connect the DC and district office, versus really doing it with intention based on the needs of your team. And I do think that a lot of people come to the Hill and you're obviously elected to represent your constituents, but there's so much managerial experience that a lot of Members of Congress end up having to really take on and having to utilize that.

I think is a really kind of hidden part of the Hill. That, as you said, if you hire a Chief of Staff or have people on your staff who maybe have more of that HR management intention behind them, it can really help bridge those gaps. And so thank you for those examples, because I think that, that is one relationship, as you said, that sometimes has some tension. Is that DC to district office.

Interview with Rep. Kat Cammack [R, FL]

Taylor J. Swift: That conversation with Representative Frost had so many incredible points, Aubrey, and actually segueways perfectly into our next guest, who is also a Member from Florida. She has a unique perspective, however, on this topic because she, prior to running to Congress, was a Congressional staffer for a Member who held the seat before her.

Republican Representative Kat Cammack represents Florida's third Congressional district and sat down with us to share her insights on what she learned from managing a team that she was once a part of.

Aubrey Wilson: Okay, so, Rep. Cammack, before you were ever elected, you actually were no stranger to Congress. For anyone who's ever heard your story about you being inspired to serve in, in kind of Congress or elected office, you know, you really emphasize is how it was policies, personal experience in your life that really made you aware of the necessity of really being an active participant in, in Congress and in, in what the legislature. With that being the case, though, you're actually first kind of flush with Congress as a Congressional staffer.

And then you found yourself about four years ago now being sworn in as one of the youngest ever Members of Congress. Looking back at those first couple weeks of the House, I've been part of the House. What surprised you the most about getting your feet under you, as you adjusted from being a Congressional staffer to a Congresswoman?

Rep. Kat Cammack: So there's a small cadre of former staffers turned Members on Capitol Hill. And one of the things that we all say is that former staffers make the best Members. Now, we say that publicly, but privately, we know that it makes us the worst when it comes to managing teams, because, as former staffers, we're very particular about how things are run in an office, and, it can be a little stressful for new staffers coming on board working for a Member who once did their job. And so that has been, I think the hardest part of being a staffer turned Member is you have the undeniable, irresistible urge to continually tap into that staffer bone where you just want to get it done.

And there's always that lingering mentality. And I don't care if you are an A type B type C type, whatever — you have that urge to really just handle it yourself. Because, and I have said this myself, I've heard it from other Members who are former staffers, and now my poor team is saying this: Delegation is hard because by the time you have taught someone how to do it and handed it off, you could have had it done.

And so to not fall into that trap, you really have to, deputize and delegate and hands off and really trust your team. But that is such a stressful experience for a former staffer. And, you know, I hear often about horror stories from other offices that had bad experiences with managers or bosses. And as a result, you see staffers kind of handling situations a little bit differently than you would have.

And so then it turns into, well, in our office, we used to... And so it is such a challenge as a Member not to fall into that. And the other part of it is when I got started, I came in the political side, pretty much as a mercenary, and I feel like sometimes some of the best political operatives, they have no connection to the political class when they're running a race, because then they can really do what's best for the candidate for the campaign, and they're running without any ties to any, any one or any organization.

That gets trickier, right, as you keep going, especially as a Member, because as a Member, you really can't be that mercenary. You are the public, forward facing, person of the operation, and there are no more, you know, I'm going to pull an all nighter and just get the job done. And it doesn't matter what I roll into the office looking like, it's it's, It's a tough thing to break that mercenary streak in you. And so. Yeah, it can be. It can be a real challenge. But there's also the added benefit of, you know, where the bathrooms are. You know, how things actually work then versus versus what is, you know, wrote in the notebooks, in the briefing materials and, that that element has absolutely been, major edge, a competitive advantage.

Interview with Rep. Derek Kilmer [D, WA]

Taylor J. Swift: Now we're going to hear from Representative Derek Kilmer, a Democrat from Washington's sixth Congressional district. He's been in the House since 2012. Kilmer is retiring at the end of the 118th Congress, but has made a huge impact on modernizing the institution, helping to make it work better for the American people.

Aubrey Wilson: He served as Chair of the House Select Committee on the Modernization of Congress for four years, and is currently the Ranking Member of the Committee on House Administration’s Subcommittee on Modernization. To say he has been a champion for effective governance is an understatement, and we loved having the chance to talk to him about how he approached staffing up his own Congressional office.

We also asked him for an overview of the major workforce and HR improvements that he has played a role in implementing since he joined the House over a decade ago.

Taylor J. Swift: So, Representative Kilmer, you chaired the House Select Committee on the Modernization of Congress a few sessions ago. You spent a lot of time looking at staff retention, upward mobility. With one of the most important responsibilities is creating a conducive environment for your staff and having an office structure that is successful for the type of work you want to do for a Member of Congress.

So with this in mind, what are your some of your favorite approaches to modernizing Congress and running a Congressional office that you found particularly impactful?

Rep. Derek Kilmer: Well, there's a few things that we did with the Modernization Committee. And then I'll also speak to things that we've done in our office, you know, on the Modernization Committee, we actually had a committee planning retreat where Democrats and Republicans sat down as a committee and said, hey, so what do we want to get done? And I encourage Members to ask their Chair and Ranking Member if that's something that can happen on the committees on which they serve.

Again, it's a great way to develop relationships across the aisle, and it's a great way to sort of chime in about what do you want to do on the committee? No one comes to Congress because they want to be a potted plant on their committee. People come to Congress because they want to legislate, and they want to be able to get things done on behalf of their constituents.

And I think asking your committee chairs to have a planning retreat, saying, I want to, I want to be relevant to the process, I want to understand where we're going really matters within our office, you know, and maybe it's because I was a former management consultant. You know, we kicked off our work by actually writing a strategic plan as an office.

And we've iterated on that over time to say, what do we want to get done? What does success look like at the end of my two year contract? You know, what do I want to say that we worked on? What do I want to say that we've accomplished and that provides clarity to your staff? You know, and it allows you to do some prioritization.

You know, so that's something that I, I really encourage, you know, one of the mottos that I've had in this role is if you want things to work differently, do things differently. And sometimes we've done things differently. I think we're one of the few offices that use Slack, which is a app that folks can use to communicate with each other, to communicate between the DC office and the district office, to, to literally sort of store content.

We have one of our Slack channels that's focused on news articles. If there's something important that we want everybody in that office to know happened, if there's something particularly newsworthy or noteworthy, we actually have a channel of our Slack that's focused on specific issues that we're working on. So folks in the district and in the DC office can have some insight into what are we working, you know, what are we working on on this topic?

And we even have a Slack channel that's called the Kudos channel, where if someone on the team does something cool, we can shout them out and say, “hey, awesome job on this.” Case on, for casework or you know, where to go in getting this grant or hey, we actually introduced this bill and it was bipartisan and we had a bunch of cosponsors or, you know, this bill was endorsed by someone like we to get that press hit to our Comms Director, that type of thing.

And then, similarly, you know, we actually because Congress over the last few years has passed some pretty, robust bills like the bipartisan infrastructure bill and the Inflation Reduction Act and some other investments. We actually decided to create a Grants Coordinator position. And that has been exceedingly valuable because we get so much outreach from our constituents about, you know, how do I tap these various resources?

I got a road to a bridge to fix. I got a water system that's broken. I got, you know, we want to build some electric vehicle charging stations or whatever. Having someone who can sort of shepherd our constituents through some of those grant programs has proved to be very helpful. So that's something that's a little bit of a I mean, it doesn't sound particularly innovative, but to my knowledge, not a lot of offices are doing it. We've found it to be really helpful.

Aubrey Wilson: So you highlighted that you, have adopted, you know, Slack as one potential way of increasing the communication between your DC and district office and that relationship between those two offices or those, like two parts of your team for every Member of Congress can be a challenge or something that's really hard to navigate as a first Member of Congress, particularly if, you don't have management experience working with the kind of diversely located teams.

If you could beam yourself back to your freshman term of first kind of setting up those, those different offices, what's something that, you know now that you wish you would have put into place as a freshman? So kind of start building that relationship between your district and DC based teams so that they act as one team.

Rep. Derek Kilmer: Well, one, you know, I will say there are some terrific resources in Washington DC that, you know, if you don't know about it, you don't know how to call on them. But we were pretty opportunistic about reaching out to entities like the Congressional Management Foundation. They have a terrific book called Setting Course for the new Members. I encourage you to read it because it gives you a bit of a playbook on how to approach some of these issues, and how to view your role within the institution.

There are other entities, POPVOX [Foundation], the Congressional Institute, you know, all sorts of organizations that are geared toward ensuring that Members of Congress are, you know, putting their best foot forward on behalf of their constituents. So one is, don't be afraid to ask for help. But we actually also, early on in my tenure, did a, a retreat where we brought in both our district staff and our DC staff and really tried to make sure that we had clear lines of communication that we set up, appropriate systems, so that there was clarity around strategy so that there were systems in terms of communications out of that, we implemented weekly calls where the DC office and the district office were communicating with each other and just saying, hey, here's the latest and greatest and the most important things that y'all need to know.

We actually have a process of, through one of our Slack channels. We use Slack, but we have one of our Slack channels. It's called Weekly Reports, where the DC staff will say, “hey, here's the super important things that I've been up to this week, just in case, folks in the district or me as a Member need to know about it.”

And the district office does a report to saying, you know, “these were some of the big events or big conversations in the district that we want to make sure the DC office and the Member knows about.” I found that to be really valuable. There are other things that, you know, I suppose I wish I had known when I was setting up my office in my first iteration of my office, we had people who did casework, but it wasn't the only thing they did.

And I found over time, having dedicated caseworkers is really important. Those jobs are too important, to let things fall, between the cracks. And it's some of the most important work that our Congressional offices do. So we have caseworkers with clear portfolios. You know, we had one caseworker who only did, almost entirely did veterans’ casework.

We had someone who works primarily on Social Security and immigration cases. We had, you know, so we had three caseworkers in our district office and that, over time, has turned out to be really valuable. And then the only other thing I would say is, when you're setting up your office, make sure that you hire some team leaders that know the place.

You know, I found great value in having a Chief of Staff that understood DC and who had some experience working with the district office. You know, making sure you get this right in terms of staffing up is important, and it has to be a combination of people with whom you're comfortable, but also people who know the place and know how the place functions and know, you know, some of these interactions between the district and the DC office and, you know, making sure that there's some experience built into your team, I think is really important.

Discussion

Taylor J. Swift: Aubrey, I really liked how Representative Kilmer talked about having both his DC and district staff together in conversations around creating strategic plans. I think that that is vitally important to ensuring your office has success.

Aubrey Wilson: Yeah, absolutely, Taylor, especially because that, you know, that office success, it really does require that coordination between the DC staff and the district staff. And actually, for our audience members who maybe aren't as familiar with the types of staffers who typically make up both of those different teams that are state based versus DC based, can we take a moment to dig into that? Why don't you start? Do you mind outlining for us? The kind of regular makeup of a district team?

Taylor J. Swift: Absolutely. That’s a great idea. So I'm going to go over the district staff really quickly. So again, this varies office by office, but generally there are several positions that are located within each Congressional district office. So first you'll have your District Director. Mostly they're in charge of the operations of that district office. You'll have your Field Reps in your Caseworkers.

They represent the office for meetings and handle a lot of the constituent service requests. Oftentimes these staffing offices have Staff Assistants as well, and maybe a few district based interns as well. And sometimes offices also have district based schedulers and even some com staffers. But it really just depends on what the Member prefers. Aubrey, do you want to kind of talk through what the DC staff composition looks like?

Aubrey Wilson: Absolutely. So DC staff have those, those, kind of TV role versions of the, of the staff and Congressional office. So that's where you're going to find usually your Chief of Staff, who is usually sometimes supported by a Deputy Chief of Staff or an Operations Director, depending on how the Member likes to handle their HR functionality in their office.

The DC office is usually the home base for the Scheduler, and also the legislative team. So it's usually where Members will have their Legislative Director who's been supported by one or two Legislative Assistants, and also the Legislative Correspondent who's in charge of all of the members mail and correspondence. The DC team also seems to be the most typical place where members house their communications team, which can be as many staffers as the Member prefers, but it's usually at least one Communications Director and a Press Assistant or Press Secretary.

You also have a Staff Assistant that's in the DC office, as you would in the district office. They're the ones answering the phone, managing the interns and kind of doing those front door relations for an office and welcoming constituents to the office who do visit you in DC. And then you usually also have a huge army of DC based interns who are really that kind of pipeline to the Congressional workforce in DC.

Taylor J. Swift: Some great points, and honestly, I hope that 101 was really helpful for our listeners. So with all of this in mind, Kilmer mentioned some of those tools. To build out your strategic plan so that everyone is aligned. I know Slack and teams can be really helpful. Is there any additional advice about staffing for freshman offices that you want to bring up before we go to our next guest, Aubrey?

Aubrey Wilson: Yeah, absolutely. One thing is obviously Taylor and I just, you know, rambled on with all of these different staff roles. Each one has adds, you know, different flexibilities and job descriptions as a freshman, coming in during New Member Orientation and trying to navigate hiring and filling all of these seats that come with, building out your Congressional office, I really recommend that you reach out through your Customer Advocate who's given to you by the Chief Administrative Office, and having them connect you with the House's new HR Hub.

It is an incredible resource that actually has built out kind of job profiles for every single type of Congressional staffer that you can really use as a resource to understand the roles and responsibilities and qualifications of each of these positions, along with typical salary information, prior work experience, anything that will kind of help you get your feet underneath you as you're starting to interview to some of these positions.

Interview with Former Reps. Rodney Davis [R, IL] and Ed Perlmutter [D, CO]

Aubrey Wilson: Well, with that, let's jump to our next guest on this episode who are no strangers to the halls of the House or to each other, for that matter. Former Congressman Rodney Davis served as the Republican Representative for Illinois's thirteenth district for five terms, and he's joined by former Congressman Ed Perlmutter, who's a seasoned politician from Colorado who served two terms in the Colorado State Senate and eight terms in the House of Reps.

Taylor J. Swift: We’d regret not telling you that they became great friends while working in Congress, and even served together for one of our favorite committees, the House Select Committee on the Modernization of Congress during the 116th.

Aubrey Wilson: When you're a freshman coming in, it's really overwhelming when you're navigating New Member Orientation, figuring out swearing in, and then also having to staff an entire office. But suddenly you have these eighteen staff slots to fill with positions that unless you primarily worked in Congress, you don't even really know the job descriptions of these roles.

For the freshmen who are coming in and having to prioritize hiring, and what jobs to really have a hand in as the Member when you're picking and selecting those candidates, what's your top piece of advice for staffing an office as a freshman?

Former Rep. Rodney Davis: You want me to go first on this one, Ed? All right. Look, you actually, have a lot more slots to staff now than what you had before because you have paid interns. That’s something that Ed and I didn't have when we first got to Congress. So you've got your eighteen permanent full-time slots, and then you've got four part-time slots and then you have and then you have some more slots just for interns that I don't even know what that number is.

But when we got to Congress, it was eighteen and four. So you had a total of 22 people that you can employ. And you can pay your part time people as full time people there. It is labeled on the, on the spreadsheet as part time. So it really didn't matter. They got treated no differently. So you really had 22 employees to set up your DC office and your district office, to be able to get to work.

But number one, the best advice that I can give any incoming freshmen is to, if you're married, have your spouse join the interviews for your Chief of Staff along with if — you have somebody already identified to be your District Director. And a lot of times that happens because your political person may stay there or somebody that's really ingrained in the community, doesn't want to come to DC and be a part of the DC community.

In my case, I hired my Chief of Staff late, and I had my District Director hired. I brought my wife and my District Director to Washington, DC, and we sat down with four people. And if you would have asked me how I would have ranked those four before the interviews, it would have been the exact opposite of what it turned out to be.

And really having you, having your spouse and that district staffer there to really be someone that you could bounce ideas off of, but also to give that added support for what you're already feeling should be the best decision, means that you're a lot more confident in making that decision.

But what you have to do is you have to have that Chief hired. And when you get that Chief hired, you need to make sure you give his or her the final responsibility to make decisions in your office, because the last place you want to be as a brand new Member of Congress, is to be the dispute resolution officer of your own operation. If you become that in your operation, you have failed to hire the right person to lead your office, or you have failed to give that person the ability to lead your office and eventually end up with every decision that is made.

A Congressional office, in a Congressional office, the blame will come back to you as the leader. So if you've made a wrong decision months later, fix it. You have time to make that up. But having that consensus on the front end with your family and with other important people in your sphere of influence is going to make sure that you run the risk less of what, run less of a risk, than what you could run.

Former Rep. Ed Perlmutter: So I came about my staff kind of from a different path. And then. Rodney, I agree with him on, you know, when you have a Chief of Staff, they really have to take care of things. So I came at it from a campaign where I had some very good people who I trusted, and from the campaign, I saw how good they were in very intense moments in a very compressed setting.

And the trust level was off the charts for my Chief, the camp, my Campaign Manager, became my Chief of Staff…So I had a Chief of Staff, a Scheduler, and the head of my constituent relations came out of my campaign, and I already felt great about them, and I felt they could do the job, and it was just turned out to be the best decision that I ever could make.

Then my Legislative Director, the policy person we did select from, group of folks that were not related to the campaign. And that worked out fine, too, because my Chief was very good at, you know, determining with me who was going to be good for a job. And we just really lucked out over the years because my Chief of Staff, to Rodney's point, was so darn good that it made everything easy and that my, the woman who was my Scheduler and then took on more and more responsibilities because she was that good, just made my life easy.

And, you know, a lot of Members have a tough time with staff. And I would just suggest to them, look back at your campaign, who was really helpful to you, who did you trust? Everybody could learn the job. They really can. And, but you can't learn trust. Trust is, you know, you got it or you don't, and you trust them with making good personnel decisions.

Aubrey Wilson: Obviously each Member is different, but I found it really helpful to understand how Rodney and Ed went through their hiring process, who they wanted in interviews, what they found valuable for their needs — it all matters for how they're going to run their operation. And it really impacted their success in Congress.

Taylor J. Swift: For our listeners, the banter between those two does not stop in future episodes. Trust us.

Interview with Yuri Beckelman

Taylor J Swift: We were fortunate to actually check in with Rep. Frost’s Chief of Staff Yuri Beckelman, who graciously shares the ins and outs of hiring best practices that he's learned from nearly two decades experience on Capitol Hill. Let's check in with our conversation with Yuri now.

So after the Select Committee on Modernization concluded in the 117th Congress, you joined Representative Maxwell Maxwell Frost as his Chief of Staff, after being a Staff Director on a committee. So you made that jump from being on the committee to being a personal office lead, let alone a lead in a freshman's office. And also, you know, Frost is the youngest Member of Congress to ever be elected.

So we'd love to hear some of your biggest takeaways from, getting that office up and running for the first several days, weeks, even months.

Yuri Beckelman: Chaos, total madness, and chaos. But is it better than it used to be? Absolutely. It just is. But is it still chaos and frustrating? Yes. it's just you're setting up so fast and, you know, and unlike a campaign, there are lots of similarities to a campaign. But unlike a campaign, you're also looking for long term sustainability, right?

You're building something to last. And that doesn't always work with the campaign. A campaign starts and ends. You don. Blah blah blah. Right. You're trying to build something that is going to build out the rest of your time in Congress. And those first decisions really do impact quite a bit. it's very incumbent upon you to be able to make decisions as a, as a Member, as a Chief.

When presented with two imperfect options, but being given the ups and ups and downs of both options to then go ahead and make a decision and be okay with it, even if it's sometimes wrong, because you're going to get it wrong sometimes. If you can do that, you will be, you'll be at a full, you know, full speed while everyone else is just getting started.

So really believe in yourself to make decisions. The more you can hire early on early days, you'll spread the work around and like that is a really important one. It is tough to hire, because you need to hire a team that is going to support you. And if you, if you make poor decisions, that will make it more difficult for you later on.

So hire a bunch of staff. It's a ton of fun picking a new office. Don't be late to the picking. That actually happened this time. And if you show up late, you go last. Some of the offices are terrible. You are guaranteed to get one of those terrible offices there for a freshman. But not all of offices are terrible. you know, but it's a lot of fun. You get to pick the curtains and the carpet and all that stuff. I can't…it could be really, really fun.

So there's an order for hiring, right, that I would recommend. The first position has to be a Scheduler. You have to hire a Scheduler if you are just if your Chief is doing your scheduling for or God forbid, you're doing your own scheduling, you are going to, to fail.

A scheduling position can often be a great opportunity for someone who's looking to get into the field and you want to bring up from the district just. But you have to make sure that they are organized. If this is someone who is not organized, it will cause trouble for the rest of the team. It also has to have a good attitude and be able to and thick skin, because even if they get things right, everything right, which they won't, they have multiple people that they will be pissing off, including on your team, as they make decisions about where you spend your time, which is the most valuable commodity you have in your office.

And so they've got to be they've got to make everyone feel heard. They've also got to make everyone, you know, give everyone the tough and be able to give everyone the tough news. And they've got to make sure things that are going up are accurate and that people are being responded to quickly. So hire a Scheduler, you need to hire a District Director to get your office up or running.

That's your number two position. You're number three. And they should be someone who you truly trust because they are running their whole operation. Think of them as your second Chief of Staff, right. Like in a in a you're the DC, just your DC Chief of Staff is not going to be sitting next to them. They've got to be able to run their own show. Then a Communications Director, a Legislative Director and then Staff Assistants in both DC and district offices.

Let teams hire their own teams. I want to really hit this - don't hire a Press Assistant before you hire a Communications Director. You should let them. You should let your directors be directors and hire their own teams if at all possible. Sometimes it's hard. Do you want to bring people from your campaign and you want to give them a slot? But it's really important that you let directors have agency in what they're building.

When hiring, you should have said you should hire early, and you should, because ultimately you're all competing with each other for the same pot of talent when it comes to DC, and someone to, you know, not against each other in their district, but you're competing with other electeds in your district. but while I do recommend hiring early and prioritizing it, do not hire people that you are uncomfortable at, you know, at the expense of doing it early.

Right. This is like a really important one. If you go out for a position and you post it and you get a set of resumes, let's start there. Right. You can't just hire based on recommendations from colleagues and friends. You should post widely. You will get applicants that you would never have imagined are out there that are just figuring out what they want to do next in their careers.

This is a job where people kind of come and go from a field and you'll pick up some really amazing talent that you will miss if you're just taking recommendations from friends. If you do post and you don't like the applicants and you go through, you know, you go through a couple of rounds and you're just not quite comfortable, especially with these senior positions, post again. I've done it multiple times. Communications Director, you will find, is one of the hardest jobs to hire for, and you'll feel like, well, you know, maybe there's just no one else out there. Let me tell you that there is. And if you go out one more time, I promise you, you will find someone that you didn't think that didn't apply the first time around and now is applying.

And you'll be proud of yourself for going out a second time. There's no embarrassment in going out. It's a process, hiring. It takes time. And the people who were in the first round, you should let them know that you're still in the process and don't keep them waiting, but don't feel like you have to hire them because they're the only candidates [who] are available.

if you the decisions you make now, if you have to let people go later on is it can be done. But it's a lot of work. And when you and your first two years, you want to stay focused on the work of serving your constituents and setting yourself up as a legislator. So if you have to go out again, don't worry about it.

And then the last thing is, you know, I wish I hired more early. I found myself writing, committee questions and, like, scheduling press. And, like, I was while having to staff the Congressmen every night and, you know, and and it's impossible. Thankfully, we had a good district team early on, but it is overwhelming. And it's really easy once you hire some people on it just kind of help make sure that the event for your constituents who are in town for that, for your swearing in. Like you need to have some people on board.

Aubrey Wilson: I want to kind of double down on the realities of the chaotic-ness that freshmen and their aides experienced during New Member Orientation, and balancing the New Member Orientation programing, with the fact that you have to staff your office starting that first day of Congress.

There's a very small time period when they're here before they're expected to have their office up and running on January 3rd. And during that time, particularly for Members or for legislators who haven't probably been in a state legislature, the fact that they now have to find eighteen staff slots to fill is really overwhelming when they're also are just learning how to be a Member of Congress to begin with.

Members don't actually get hiring authority until they're officially sworn in, which is January 3rd, which is quite the catch 22, considering that you're supposed to be up and operational on January 3rd. Can you give any advice or best practices that you may have seen or experienced about? Kind of the pre hiring practices that can be done during New Member Orientation to get those essential, staff slots kind of lined up to be officially hired on January 3rd to make sure that you have people in the office to to make sure that you are not the one as Chief of Staff or as the Member having to come up with the committee questions for the first hearings during that first couple weeks of Congress.

Yuri Beckelman: You know, you need to bring on your Chief, and you have to have a lot of trust in your Chief to go out and find people. Your Chief needs to understand what an MRA is even before they start working.

You know, that's why it's there's a lot of opportunity to hire people from the district. I highly recommend you bring people up from the district and give them opportunities. I would recommend someone with a bit of Hill experience for your Chief of Staff. They need to know the way the place operates, and be cross-trained. You know, we were talking about my resume a little bit earlier, but in addition to all the policy I did, I also was the Communications Director off the Hill.

Right. Like people, people who understand, legislative people who understand comms are always better. And the same thing, you know, back around people who also understand the administrative side are going to be better. I'd like the more you cross-trained, the better. So find yourself a good Chief of Staff who can do all the roles. Get them to understand the MRA so that you're not promising salaries that you cannot fulfill.

You also have to be careful. You can't promise a whole lot leading up to before your hiring authority starts. You can, you know, you can have conversations. You can say, I intend to hire you, but you can't promise jobs. It's my understanding, and nor should you. and then once you start hiring, you know, I'm, I'm a big fan of letting directors set up their own shops, and I like to create hiring committees that don't include me in the first round.

And if you're a Member who wants to be part of the first rounds. I would like stop, please, please pull yourself out of it a little bit. I would put together hiring committees that included junior and senior staff and men and women and people in the district and DC and the three person committee. Right.

You just want a little bit of diversity on it. And I would let them do the first round. I would let them choose the resumes. and I would look through them and, you know, later on, and I would let them do the first round and then a few would get to me, and then I would interview them, and then we would all discuss it, and you get really good talent that way.

Aubrey Wilson: As a follow up point with that, you made the comment earlier about how hiring sprees during the beginning of a Congress is a pretty crazy time because everyone's going after the same talent, especially with those really excellent employees, like your Communications Directors, your Schedulers. With the fact that you obviously want to lock in really, really great people, but you can't particularly promise them a position before you have hiring authority, can you go into a little bit more detail about how to navigate that, interaction, especially when you do potentially have a delegation of of giving that to, a Legislative Director when they're hiring their legislative team or Comms Director and hiring your Assistant or a Deputy, or a District Director when they're hiring their district staff. How can you balance and make sure that you're locking in good people, but still respecting the fact that you don't quite have the ability to actually have them sign their payroll information yet.

Yuri Beckelman: Smart people get it right. There's a culture of understanding of how this people works, and you're making a bit of a commitment to each other. And it's a trust commitment. And let's be very clear, if you're hiring senior staff especially, you're going to need to trust them. And if you don't have the trust, like it's not going to go further for those people who just aren't, you know, who are really tight and aren't willing to make commitments to you and you to them, you know it.

It might not be a good fit, if I'm being frank. A lot of what you're hiring is you're not going to check every box with the people that you're hiring. Frankly, there's a good attitude will go a long way. You're looking for people that are smart, that are creative and have a good attitude. And, a good attitude will allow someone to learn and grow.

This is their, and into the position often. And so I would, I would say I would recommend, prioritizing a good attitude when, when looking for candidates, people who want to work with you, who want to do the work, and, and it might not fulfill everything else in your list of what you're looking for. A great way, by the way, to check someone's attitude and all.

Add it attitude. And what is it like? An aptitude. Right? So, like, they're aptitude to do the job are reference checks. Don't be lazy. Do their reference checks. You know, and if you know someone that knows them, you should check with the candidate so you don't get them in trouble. But you don't always have to take just the references they send you.

Right? You can ask if it's okay for you to contact this other person that you might had no one. And you know, in common. Right. But reference checks matter so much. And when you end up having someone who doesn't work out, you will often end up kicking yourself later on for not doing it. I also listen, I take reference checks very seriously.

I don't. Just because someone worked with me before doesn't mean they get to list me as a reference. And I'll provide a good reference if you come to me in that and ask, a background on someone, I have to be honest, because it's so important the way this place works and I won't betray other people and I.

And I'll tell you what, most Chiefs that I know, they have that same mentality of. I won't throw this other Chief under the bus because I, you know, just because I worked with this person for three months, you should feel free there. That's the culture here is being honest about that kind of stuff.

Interview with Bradford Fitch

Taylor J. Swift: Our next guest is a leading expert in the Congressional staffing space. Bradford Fitch talked to us on his first official day of retirement after working at the Congressional Management Foundation for over 20 years, where he served as president and CEO. For these interviews, he wanted us to call him Brad. And for those of you who are new to CMF, we highly recommend checking out all of their resources on their website.

So, Brad, you've been involved in the Congressional staffing and management space for decades, both on the Hill as a former Chief of Staff and as the head of the Congressional Management Foundation. So what are some of your favorite innovative approaches to Congressional staffing or to running a Congressional office that you found particularly helpful?

Bradford Fitch: When I was talking to incoming freshmen and they were considering their hiring practices, I generally pushed what I called the one third rule. You want one third of your staff having Washington experience, about one third of your staff coming from the state and perhaps from the campaign, and maybe at least 20% people who know the incoming Member. And let me break that down.

The Center for Effective Lawmaking, which is an institute that was created by Vanderbilt University and the University of Virginia, did a study on freshmen lawmakers, how effective they were as legislators in terms of getting their legislative agenda passed. It's probably not shocking that those that hired experienced Legislative Directors were more successful. Yet many don't. And so the first lesson we say is bring on a team of people in Washington that have some experience in Washington, and many don't follow that rule, but the ones that do are more effective in their first term.

It's good to have people from the state often working both in the district office in DC and the one position I always coach them to hire from the state, perhaps from the campaign, is the staff assistant answering the phones. This is especially important for parts of the country, frankly, that people have an accent, said another way, you want the person answering the phone to sound like the person making the call.

So that's. And then third, you don't want to have a Member of the House or Senate start their Congressional career with sixteen people they just met. And so having that person or people that have work with them, this is a great role for a Scheduler, who intimately knows the cycles and the do's and don'ts and the strengths and weaknesses of the incoming freshman lawmaker.

So those are generally the hiring recommendations. The other thing we say to freshmen is you don't have to do all this yourself. This is one area where you can farm out the resume review process to volunteers of your kitchen cabinet. Most people are shocked at the number of resumes that they get in. I was a freshman Chief of Staff, and we had sixteen openings and 1,200 applications.

And especially if it's a wave year, everybody's going to, you know, and you're going to get the lawyers that are going to say, oh, yeah, I'll answer the phones. No, you do not want someone from law school answering the phones. So you got to be very careful about bringing on people who have unusual expectations about the job.

And if you do it, well, you won't have a lot of turnover. We used to think the Campaign Managers don't translate well into Chiefs of Staff. And we actually, at the Congressional Management Foundation, did some research on people who hired campaign people and senior leadership roles and people who did not. And the turnover was the same.

So I've seen many examples of Campaign Managers translate into good Chiefs of Staff. Some don't. The skill sets are a little different, but I've also seen some great examples of campaign people, really taken to working in Congress, especially in district offices. Very, very well.

Aubrey Wilson: I love what you said about not hiring someone who doesn't have the kind of the regional accent that hit home for me, because one of my first jobs on the hill was actually answering the phone for a Member of Congress from Georgia, and I very often got called out for not having that southern accent. It definitely does matter.

People notice. So that made me laugh. So, Brad, you, further back in your career, you actually helped set up a freshman office as a chief. And as you were just mentioning, you know, you've helped a lot of Members figure out kind of staffing and office structure. If you could beam yourself back to setting up that freshman office, what is one of the key lessons you think that you learned regarding those initial months of prioritizing, office structure and staffing that you wish you would have known then that you know, now?

Bradford Fitch: Well, setting up a freshman office has all of the headaches of setting up a small business with all of the red tape of a bureaucracy. And I wish someone had told me that, like in December when I got my job, because I didn't really know how to navigate the bureaucracy part, I kind of was ready for the small business part, because I knew enough about freshman offices to know that we had to, you know, get computers for the district office and and everything.

I will also add, though, that both the Committee on House Administration and the Chief Administrative Officer in the House have improved significantly in the last ten to 20 years in setting up freshman offices. Just by way of background, in the late 90s up until about 2004, freshmen inherited the equipment of their predecessor, regardless of what condition it was in.

Now everybody gets set up with the same level of equipment, but you can believe that, you know, 1999 I had a desktop computer, a laptop computer, and a fax machine, which we donated to the Smithsonian. It was crazy. And so I think that people have to appreciate it's the navigating the bureaucracy in the first three to six months, especially in the district offices, that can be richly intimidating and that you really need experienced help.

So connecting with a mentor, a sophomore office early, early on is invaluable for the logistical aspects of it. And, you know, Members, the other thing I encourage Members to think about, they just want to hit the ground running. They want to get their first bill in. They want to do their first speech. And I remind them, your constituents are going to be most mindful and remember the last three months of this term, not the first three months.

The first three months, you got to really focus on the small business aspects of it. The hiring, the strategic planning, having a good kickoff retreat in April. These are the key goals that you have to accomplish in your tenure. I had the good fortune of at that point in my career, I'd worked on the Hill eleven years.

I thought I knew what I was getting into because I had worked in the House at that point, a total of six years. No, uh uh, once you become Chief, it's a different world. I think the other thing I did well was I did connect with fellow freshman Chiefs. We would do our liquid focus groups at the Hawk and Dove on a regular basis and, you know, share stories and commiserate and help each other out.

And that was a really helpful peer group that got me through the first year. I will also have to say, professionally, in my 40 years of working, probably one of the most fun years of my life was the first year of setting up a freshman office. There's never going to reach that level of enthusiasm, that excitement, that belief you're going to change the world. It was really, really fun. Followed by one of the worst years of my tenure because my boss was in a tough reelection race, and that's just no fun. But, yeah, it's a really great experience, as we describe it in our publications at the Congressional Management Foundation. Welcome to the greatest roller coaster ride of your life.

Aubrey Wilson: As the long term head of the Congressional Management Foundation, I think that CMF has really kind of reset perspectives about the management role that Chiefs of Staff and Members play. I think there's a lot of people who are elected to Congress who don't understand how much management comes into the equation of the success of an office for new Members and for new chiefs of staff who maybe don't have a lot of personnel management experience?

What are some of the main resources or tips you have for where they can kind of get smart on some really great people management skills? As they start this new Congress to find success.

Bradford Fitch: In the House of Representatives, the best way to elevate your management skills and your professional development, in general, is to participate in every one of the programs offered by the Chief Administrative Officer, the CAO, the professional development opportunities have, just been enlarged to a point where they're finally providing the type of training that they need, which is job specific training.

There's conferences that you can go to that are available. They can serve food, for heaven's sakes, just like a normal professional development program you'd have in the Executive branch or in the military or in the corporate world. Sadly, the Senate has not followed that. One of the great things about the CAO programing is it is done by Congressional staff.

One of the messages I would bring to the trainers on Capitol Hill is that the only people that Congress will listen to, you can turn a former staffer into a trainer. You can't turn the trainer into a former staffer. And that's why it's so valuable to have these former staffers. And these are rock star Chiefs of Staff that have been recruited by the House of Representatives.

So that is the first and foremost, there are obviously other resources available. If you're on the Republican side, the Congressional Institute provides a lot of training, Congressional Management Foundation and POPVOX offer bipartisan training in a variety of different areas that I would encourage people to take advantage of. For legislative assistance, CMF and Georgetown University offers a Legislative Assistant training program that's a two-day program. There's just so many more professional development opportunities now that weren't there a few years ago. And, if I had to do it over again as a Chief of Staff, I would have been in more of those programs and using more of those resources that, probably would have made me a better I know it would have made me a better manager.

Taylor J. Swift: I still can't get over the fact of what Brad said towards the end there: “Welcome to the greatest roller coaster of your life.” It's true. No two days in Congress are the same.

Discussion

Aubrey Wilson: Okay, Taylor, let's take a second here to stitch together what we've heard so far from our Members and former Chiefs. What’s standing out to me is the advice of hiring people that you can trust early, and then delegating as many HR functions as soon as you can to help manage that hiring workload out of the gate and that onboarding process. What about you?

Taylor J. Swift: I completely agree, Aubrey, and I just want to double down really quickly on something we just heard from Brad. Management skills can go a long way for ensuring Congressional success and there are a ton of resources available to Members, Chiefs, District Directors, honestly, every staff level.

With that. Let's jump to our final conversation on building and retaining a strong Congressional team.

Interview with Keenan Austin Reed

Aubrey Wilson: So far, we've heard from our guests about how to build a team, and our next guest is a Capitol Hill veteran who leveraged her network to actually create a healthier culture in the offices that she worked in. Keenan Austin Reed is currently the Vice President at the Alpine Group, but she’s set to become the CEO of it in January of 2025.

Before leaving the Hill, Keenan wore several hats. She was Chief of Staff to Democratic Congressman Don McEachin from Virginia, and also Deputy Chief of Staff and Senior Advisor to Democratic Florida Representative Frederica Wilson.

Taylor J. Swift: Keenan spoke to us about the value of mentorship on the Hill, and why it's so important to find your community and build a support system. Keenan was the co-founder of the Black Women's Congressional Alliance, an organization with over 300 members that support career development for Black women working on Capitol Hill. We hope that her firsthand experience inspires you to realize that you have a role to play in making Congress a better workplace.

Aubrey Wilson: And although not every staffer on the Hill should expect to set up your own multi-100-person network, Keenan's insights on the benefits of building teams from a variety of backgrounds, and how to do that successfully, are ones that I think that all managers can chew on. We kicked off our conversation with her focused on those initial weeks of being a new staffer.

So, Keenan, when you're a new staffer on the Hill, it's extremely overwhelming as an experience, not only because you're obviously learning the ropes of your new job, but also it's really difficult to find community.

You had an incredible impact on the Hill with not only finding community, but obviously building a huge community for hundreds of Hill staffers. Can you tell us a little bit about what you were able to accomplish on the Hill, through kind of that goal of finding mentorship and relationships? And how that impacted your success? While working for Congress?

Keenan Austin Reed: Yes. Aubrey, what a great question. So, mentorship is a huge piece of success on the Hill, as you mentioned, if there are so many unwritten rules and Congress has been going on for a while, so there are things that you're just not going to find in a book or written somewhere. So you need someone that has done it before to guide you along.

So while I was there, I sought mentors, and I'm thankful for the people who brought me in some of those mentors came from folks in my office. But some of them, a lot of them were people within my delegation, sometimes even folks who were off the Hill and had had that experience. However, in 2018, I had done a stint on the Hill first and from 2011 to 2015 took a break and then came back and realized that that natural affinity that people have for each other, I just…I didn't know a lot of people.

I was walking through the hallways. I was used to knowing a lot of the faces, and I didn't. The other thing was I was looking for a sense of community I had done since I had come to the Hill. I had done a lot of work on trying to diversify Capitol Hill because there was, studies and references to, there not being a lot of Black staffers in senior roles.

And by senior, I mean, and control staff of a sizable, significant control of budget and so we wanted to change Congress, yes. But we all know that trying to get legislation done in Congress and trying to change Congress as an institution takes a lot of time. What we realized was that we could help each other. Women could help each other.

Staff could help each other very quickly just by passing along some of the things that staff knew, one staff to another staff. So I was able to work with a few other ladies to build something called the Black Women's Congressional Alliance. It started off as a happy hour intended to just build community, and bring together women who had similar experiences, women who wanted to advance, but may be hitting a ceiling, women who were working and dedicated their lives to public service and were mission focused and driven.

So this organization now has been in existence for six years. We've been able to get women more senior roles by just talking to each other, telling people how they should interview, what they should be focused on, giving them clear objectives and roadmaps, and then also jointly finding a community for folks, some of the best friends and, and, who's in your wedding have come from these networks.

I'm always shocked by the things that I get from people who have built these incredible connections out of this sisterhood, and so we're just going to keep it going. Our reach has gone from what I thought was going to just be, some nice conversation to all the way to the White House. And so we're going to just keep doing more.

And, and so that's a little bit about mentorship. But I think mentors can look like you. They can also not look like you. They can also be younger than you. That's something that I've discovered in the year 2024. They're people that are experiencing and learning things that you just, you know, that you don't know and you don't have all the answers.

So I think for people that are embarking upon Congress in this journey, whether you're a Hill staffer or a mentor, this is a town where you cannot do it by yourself. And so be open to, bridging and finding answers in others.

Taylor J. Swift: That’s so amazing, Keenan. I think for our listeners who are brand new to the Hill, both at the staff level and at the Member level, what do you think the best way is to get involved in these kind of organizations? Are there listservs that they can join? Are there folks that you recommend they talk to? Are there formal support offices?

I think, you know, just there's a lot out there, but it's also a lot to sift through. So for you, what was your experience? And then kind of what do you think for our listeners would be some of the best advice to find.

Keenan Austin Reed: Yeah. So I informally use the rule of three. So anybody I speak with, I'm trying to get three more people out of you that I can speak with about other issues. And so that way I, I build capacity in expanding my network with each coffee. When you're looking for networks to join, think about them both in affinity and ideology.

So the House requires that staff associations register through the House. I will note the Black Women's Congressional is not a staff association. It's a network. So we are not registered. But a lot of organizations are, organizations like the Women's Congressional Staff Association and the Congressional Black Associates. And, they're just so many and they're more now than ever because I think staff really are seeing the value and, in bridging their Congressional work by building these wonderful communities.

So you can check the House Administration listserv to sort of get some of those good points. And there's also annually a fair where all of the staff associations are there. And they you can get that information there, but they're, they're you know, I would start off with House Admin. And then also, just as we always talk about use the community of people that you're talking with, don't be shy about where you want to get involved and think beyond to the staff associations.

When I was not starting out now, I am not athletic at all. I'm back. The person that you do not want on any team with a ball other than golf. But I will say this a lot of good relationships are built on kickball teams in Washington. So if you are young and you are, even if you're, you know, at any point you're starting out, remember some of the best relationships are built on these on the soft, the Congressional softball team, the Congressional baseball team for Hill staff, they're all they'll be.

There are kickball leagues, and they're just wonderful friendships that people are able to build. I would not sign me up for one, but if that is your ministry, I'd say look into it is available to you as an additional network.

Aubrey Wilson: Keenan, when you think of, kind of your best practices or what you wish you could tell every senior manager on Capitol Hill about how to build a really strong team, build a really strong culture, attract and retain amazing staff. What would it be?

Keenan Austin Reed: That's so hard because there's so many things I want to tell managers. One is, you're doing better than you think and you really need to do, you've got to be thoughtful about you. When I'm speaking to Chiefs, they lead with the Member needs this, the Member needs that. And I'm looking at them and I'm thinking, man, you look like you have not slept or you've not gone to the doctor or anything that I've done.

I've forgotten to pay bills that were significant because you're still invested in making the principal's life great and making sure that their priorities are handled and that the team's priorities are handled, and that to responding to your leadership or conference, whatever. And you're not taking care of yourself. So you need to make sure that that's a large piece of it.

The other thing is, when it comes to, attaining and retaining and attracting diverse talent, if you are new here and you're new to, bringing in people that are not like, your, your standard environment, meaning, and I'll just be clear about this, I get a lot of calls about, you know, I'm ready to diversify my office.

And then this is your first diverse hire, and you've been doing everything in your office in a certain way. You guys have, you know, you stand around the watercooler, you do this Monday meeting, whatever the thing is, and you don't prepare for bringing someone in that is different from who we've already had. You've got to be, diversity is one thing.

Diversity is just bringing someone in. But how are we about our inclusion piece? Are we ready to make sure that this person who, you know, has had a different lived experience from the rest of us to make sure that they are a part of the work culture, in our, in our environment and are we expecting that person to.

And if we're not, why are we expecting them to perform at the same level? So I just I want people to be very honest when they say they want it. They want to hire a diverse, typically…if it's a staff of ten, thinking about a DC Congressional office and they hire they save one spot.

A lot of staff offices do this. They say one spot and they say, oh, this is going to be where our diverse hire is. Well, you're putting you’re forcing it, you know, and then you've not changed anything about how else you do business. And you're expecting this person to come in and overcome all of the ways that you did business prior to them, where you didn't hire diverse for some reason.

So the burden of doing their job and transitioning your culture is now on that staffer. That's a lot. So just be thoughtful about how you approach that and be patient. Also if you if you want, talent, like, you know, if you're interested in diversify your talent, great people may come from backgrounds that you're not expecting, schools you're not expecting, you know, talk to upside down across and some numbers, like, I want them to be an Ivy League lawyer.

So like, okay, I'd love that for you. But what if this hard working person from a state school is going to run through a wall for you and has all of this incredible experience that can help you get your agenda to the next level? What about them? So open your mind to talent that may not look like what you think.

The last thing I will say for managers is you got to find your community of other managers to say the awful things that you can't say to anyone else. And it's got to be a trusted circle. I have a group of women Chiefs, and we are still on a text chain for four or five years removed now from being Chiefs of Staff on the Hill.

But we still have that circle. You have to have someone that you can go to and say, this Member of Congress is, in fact, driving me crazy. Y'all can laugh at it and you can troubleshoot all of the issues that you have. You can give best practices to each other in a very confidential, discreet way. And then, you know, laugh, have that glass of wine and then get back in the ring.

And, keep saying the last things, last thing. One other note is, the management on the Hill can be lonely because you're because you're very senior. You're getting all of the high level sensitive information. You're getting the Members real and honest thoughts. And that can be tough and a lot of pressure. I would just say, just again, that community is just because of the very, lonely nature of it.

Just make sure that you are taking space for you and that you have some, some outlet for yourself and doing that one.

Aubrey Wilson: One thing I'll just like highlight to with all of your kind of answers to that question, was that there's a lot of time involved in this, like building community takes time. Building a really good team with intention takes time. Building that culture takes time. Building that text chain of those Chiefs of Staff that you're still talking to five years removed from being on the Hill takes a lot of time.

Like, I think that that was one really hard transition point for me. It was like when I first became a staffer on the Hill, I was like, okay, where's my network? Where's my community, where's my team? And you hope that it will just, like kind of pop out of the ground out of nowhere. And it's not like that.

Like, you know, I'm kind of going back to your answer earlier about, you know, the rule of three, how, you know, when you meet somebody, you hope that they introduce you three more people. It's worth putting that time aside to build those relationships. But it really does take intention to do that. And it it'll take months. But those people, when you do find them, they're there for you.

And like, you know, you do have them. Yeah. You said, you know, years later even in their, you know, next job and your next position. So that's such an incredible thing to highlight is just the fact that, like, it's worth that investment, even when you're outbox and outlook is, is demanding just as much attention as your coffee dates.

Keenan Austin Reed: Yeah. And Members should think of that too. That's a harder thing. Because it's very we we as staff talk about, it takes time and there's an awareness that we do. But what happens when you come to Congress and you're a little lonely because there are factions within your conference or caucus, and it's hard to figure out who to trust and what relationships to build.

So even for Members, I've had a lot of private discussions. You have to take your time with that, too. And the people you ultimately find your people. I do think it requires, you know, you put yourself out there a little bit. You're not an extrovert like us. You get you got it. You know, kind of, as you said, Aubrey, like, you know, put, make the effort to have a dinner, make the effort, have a coffee. But it does work on, for the Members. In the same way it can be a bit lonely and it can take some time.

Discussion

Aubrey Wilson: Well, Taylor, we knew this was going to be a packed episode. Thank you so much to our audience for sticking with us to hear from our incredible lineup of guests. To wrap us up, what were your biggest takeaways?

Taylor J. Swift: Yeah, Aubrey. So I think the importance of having mentorship and community really stood out to me. I love that Brad was able to talk about the immense value of having a small group of other freshman Chiefs and colleagues to lean on during those initial months, so that you can get through those growing pains together. I also really appreciated Keenan's stories about building out that support system to help you both professionally and personally, get through those tough management challenges that you'll no doubt face as either a Member or a Chief of Staff.

And I do want to shamelessly plug one more time, there are so many resources available in the House to help improve your managerial skills as either a Member or a managerial staff. So you have the HR Hub, the CAO Coach Program, which is actually a system that is prior Chiefs and District Directors that help give 101 counsel counseling sessions for actionable advice for staff.

There's also the Member Excellence Program and of course, the House Intern Resource Office, which is actually a newer support office to help incoming interns and Intern Coordinators, providing them with resources so that they can be set up for success for their internships. What about you, Aubrey?

Aubrey Wilson: Yeah, I think re highlighting those resources is so important,Taylor. And there are, you know, that all of those offices are actually pretty new in the last couple of Congresses. And I really encourage our listeners to listen in. There's a future episode of Gavel In focused on modernization efforts and truly the progress made in supporting staff, you know, really shines through.

And on that note, I feel like with this episode in particular, we really hopefully made the case to convince you that your staffing choices during your freshman term are so important. Working in a Congressional office is such a unique environment, and every team is different, but that's a feature and not a bug. I think my biggest takeaway from each of our guests was how they all showcase that there is a lot of attention that needs to go into hiring each position to foster not only a productive and effective team, but also a really supportive environment to attract and retain these expert staff who have amazing institutional knowledge to really survive your term with you. To all of the new Members and Chiefs of Staff listening, I just want to remind you that you have so much autonomy in building out your team how you want.

I know earlier in the episode, Taylor and I ran through that laundry list of the staff there in the DC and the district. There's so much flexibility available to you. So as you're filling out those positions and finding the amazing individuals who have their own personal experiences that they're bringing to the table, know that there's not a set calculation for this or a set formula.

Build the team and make the team that makes you the most confident in starting out your time in Congress.

Taylor J. Swift: I completely agree, Aubrey. And we want to extend a special thank you to all of our amazing guests today: Representatives Kat Cammack, Maxwell Frost, Derek Kilmer; former Representatives Ed Perlmutter and Rodney Davis; and our expert former and Congressional staffers Yuri Beckelman, Brad Fitch, and Keenan Austin Reed.

Conclusion

Taylor J. Swift: If you've found today's episode helpful, please feel free to share it with your colleagues and be sure to go to the episode page on popvox.org/gavel for extra resources to make sure that you and your team are set up for success, both in DC and in the district. Speaking of which, you can also go to popovox.org/futureproofing to learn how you can make a difference in your new role to ensure that Congress is likewise set up for success in the long run.

Follow us @popvoxfdn on X and Instagram, and we're POPVOX Foundation on LinkedIn. Thank you for your service, and we'll see you in Congress.

Previous
Previous

Ep. 3: How Committees in the House Work and How to be an Effective Committee Member

Next
Next

Ep. 1: Schoolhouse Rock: A Refresher and Reality Check for the Modern Legislative Process